Transcript · English → Portuguese
English → Portuguese transcript
E a seriedade dos BRICS,
acho que para
alguns ficou evidente com o sequestro do ah do presidente da Venezuela,
Maduro, e da primeira- dama, ah,
da primeira- dama Cilia Flores.
Porque não foi o Brasil,
o Lula, o presidente Lula já esteve neste programa.
Ah, ele não veio mais desde que…
ele veio depois que foi solto da cadeia.
Ele votar contra
a entrada da
Venezuela nos BRICS,
você não acha que isso permitiu que o Trump
sequestrasse o Maduro?
Bem, sabe, é uma dinâmica
interessante
dentro do Brasil.
Ah, nós conversamos muito com nossos colegas brasileiros lá atrás,
durante durante a cúpula,
antes e depois da cúpula.
Formamos, temos este Fórum Civil e o
Conselho Civil,
o Conselho Civil dos BRICS,
que na verdade une,
de todos os
países dos BRICS,
grandes movimentos,
ONGs, academia,
e assim por diante.
Então, do Brasil,
tem o MST e
o Cebrapaz e
vários outros
movimentos,
organizações que
estão unindo
vários milhões
de pessoas.
Então eles estavam todos, na verdade,
se manifestando contra essa decisão.
Cada uma das palavras…
Vetar a adesão da Venezuela ao BRICS?
Sim, eles diziam que é, é,
é uma vergonha.
Então por que o Lula fez isso?
Bem, ah… E o Brasil deveria estar no BRICS?
Claro que o Brasil deveria
estar no BRICS.
Mas a questão é,
ah, estou falando como acadêmico,
como estudioso,
ah, para não ser, você sabe,
suspeito de intervir nos assuntos de ninguém.
Mas ah, nós sabemos que o Brasil tem diferentes opiniões internas.
Tanto sobre como trabalhar com a América,
como trabalhar com o BRICS.
E a posição do Lula não seria necessariamente cem por cento igual à,
por exemplo,
das pessoas no Itamaraty, que o Ministério das Relações Exteriores teria.
Ah, e é uma espécie de
mistura difícil de
diferentes,
sabe, trabalhos e diferentes abordagens de, sabe,
todos os tipos de camadas da sociedade e diferentes estruturas governamentais.
E eles reconhecendo e
dizendo que nós, sim,
não reconhecemos Maduro como um líder legítimo,
eles estavam dizendo isso em voz alta.
E então houve esse, você lembra, houve um problema territorial com o
estado vizinho deles.
Então toda essa mistura,
embora eu saiba que,
pelo que eu me lembro,
Lula e Maduro são muito
bons amigos.
Então, mas tudo isso
levou ao veto
brasileiro e sim,
aconteceu durante a
presidência da
Rússia, mas nada…
sim, não pôde ser feito porque o BRICS age unicamente com base em consenso.
Não pode ser simplesmente todo mundo contra,
tipo uma pessoa contra ou um
país contra,
é recusado.
Está completo.
Então, ah, mas sim,
o Brasil devia
estar lá e…
End of transcript · 436 words · machine translated
Original transcript (English)
And the seriousness of BRICS, I think to some was illuminated by the kidnapping of Because wasn't it Brazil, Lula, President Lula has been on this show. Because wasn't it Brazil, Lula, President Lula has been on this show. Uh he hasn't been on uh since he he was on after he was let out of jail. Him voting against BRICS membership for Venezuela,
Him voting against BRICS membership for Venezuela, do you not think that allowed uh Trump to kidnap uh Maduro? Well, you know, it's an interesting interplay within Brazil. Uh we talked a lot to our Brazilian colleagues back in during Uh we talked a lot to our Brazilian colleagues back in during
during the summit, before and after the summit. during the summit, before and after the summit. We formed, we have this Civil Forum, and Civil Council, BRICS Civil Council, which actually unites from all the BRICS countries big movements, NGOs, academias, et cetera.
big movements, NGOs, academias, et cetera. So from Brazil, there is this MST and Cebrapaz and a number of other So from Brazil, there is this MST and Cebrapaz and a number of other movements, organizations that are uniting several million people. movements, organizations that are uniting several million people.
So they were all actually demonstrating against such a decision. So they were all actually demonstrating against such a decision. Each and every word... To veto Venezuela's membership to BRICS? Yes, they were saying it's it's a it's a shame.
So why did Lula do it? So why did Lula do it? Well, uh... Well, of course Brazil should be in BRICS. But the point is, uh I'm talking as a academician, as a scholar,
But the point is, uh I'm talking as a academician, as a scholar, But the point is, uh I'm talking as a academician, as a scholar, uh not to be, you know, suspected of intervening into anybody's affairs. uh not to be, you know, suspected of intervening into anybody's affairs. uh not to be, you know, suspected of intervening into anybody's affairs.
But uh we do know that Brazil has different internal opinions. Both of how to work with America, how to work with BRICS. And Lula's position is not necessarily would be hundred percent the same of what for example people in Itamaraty, the MFA would have. Uh and it's a kind of a difficult mix of different, you know,
work and different approaches from, you know, all kinds of layers of society work and different approaches from, you know, all kinds of layers of society And them uh acknowledging and saying that we yeah, we do not recognize Maduro as a legitimate leader, they were saying it out loud. And then there was this uh you remember there was territorial problem with their nearby state.
So all this mix, although I know that from what I remember, So all this mix, although I know that from what I remember, Lula and Maduro they are quite good friends. Lula and Maduro they are quite good friends. So but all of that led to the Brazilian veto and uh
So but all of that led to the Brazilian veto and uh yes it happened during Russia's presidency but nothing... yes it happened during Russia's presidency but nothing... yeah it could couldn't be done because BRICS is solely acting on the basis of consensus. yeah it could couldn't be done because BRICS is solely acting on the basis of consensus.
It cannot be just everybody against like one person against or one country against, it's turned down. It's complete. or one country against, it's turned down. It's complete. or one country against, it's turned down. It's complete. So um but yeah, Brazil should be there and...
So um but yeah, Brazil should be there and...
