Russian → English transcript

How did these Western institutions, overall, influence the curriculum?

Well, here it is important to understand that I enrolled in 2019.

That was exactly when Zelensky came to power, and for us

a course toward liberalization, toward liberalism, became very strong. So we were kind of…

we were being trained as the future elite. That is, it was supposedly this kind of training

of reserve personnel so that we could later be in the government of Ukraine.

We could be in the cabinet of ministers or in the Verkhovna Rada, wherever.

What is absolutely the most important is that in political science there were no Russian sources and there still are none.

Not a single one. They are completely banned there. No Berdyaev,

no other philosopher of that kind. They are under a total ban.

So, it is just impossible. From the first year we had

disciplines from USAID and from various revival-type funds,

the Open Society Fund, all of that. What was there?

The most important thing to understand is that my generation, the zoomers,

and not you boomers and millennials, was being prepared for there to be a war.

Already, starting roughly from 2019, we were being prepared for an information war,

and we were taught how we needed to counteract the Russian Federation.

So basically, in all these courses we studied the psychology of Russia,

Russian media, the Russian mentality, what guides Russia,

what the main Russian narratives are. We had to study all of that.

And then we had, for example, a final assignment to come up with

counterpropaganda to Russian narratives. What was the most important thing?

That Russia, first and foremost, is an enemy that has been trying to destroy Ukraine

since the baptism of Rus. Well, by the way, if you are laughing,

this is actually one of the main theses. So why do you think there is now

persecution of the UOC in Ukraine? Because we were told

that, for example, when Rus was baptized, when Kyiv was baptized, the Dnipro was drowned in blood.

And the pagans who supposedly, that supposedly Kyiv was originally a pagan city,

they supposedly killed each other there and said that Kyiv would never be

calm and peaceful as long as you are forcing us to be baptized.

And now this narrative about religion, it is once again founded on blood.

I mean, my brain is about to explode now. Volodymyr the Great,

whom Ukraine is trying to claim exclusively, like, you know, as some Cossack with a forelock,

says that he essentially forced people to adopt Christianity by force,

because it turns out the original religion of the ancient Ukrainians

is the utopia of paganism, Peruns and all the rest.

And at the same time, despite the fact that Vladimir, according to Ukraine, is Ukrainian,

he did this in the interests of Moscow, which did not yet even exist then, in order to destroy Ukraine.

Naturally.

On this note we are ending our psychological attack.

Well, religion is, basically, as I remember we were taught in that course.

Our course was called Democracy, such a really bright, colorful title.

And there they told us that there are several pillars on which society stands,

a democratic society. And one of these pillars is religion.

And they say that America is a treasure trove of complete democracy.

and rights, human freedom. There you have any religions.

Basically, it is just, like, whatever you want, you choose.

But in Ukraine, for example, Russia ran such propaganda

that there is only one religion there, these priests of the ROC, and they are bad.

Interesting facts, actually. It is just that you say you had an environment.

Did you somehow understand together that something was written wrong?

Or did you have to somehow fight with yourself, with your friends?

I had to fight with my friends. All my classmates,

and, unfortunately, to my great regret, not one of them became a reasonable person.

They all moved either to Europe and started working, you could say, against Ukraine and Russia,

or moved to the USA, or some stayed in Ukraine.

And, well, sort of…

No, so you could say that Soros’s effectiveness is high.

Yes.

One hundred percent, yeah?

One hundred percent, unfortunately. Well, because, again, coming back,

for example, to the first year, we were still young, hot-blooded, with really big ambitions.

And what are all these American teachers offering us?

They say that America is a country of absolute freedom.

And, like, you can be whoever you want. You want to be a businessman, you want to be a designer,

you want to be a politician, we will give you everything. But, like, you have to listen to us.

We had very bright, colorful books there, you know, like manuals.

And the main thing in them was that, basically, you should not listen to anyone in this world.

So we look at the USA, it is, like, completely a treasure trove, a Klondike of ideas.

And, like, Russia is kind of…

Well, and by that time had you traveled somewhere, maybe?

Just what were you relying on?

Yeah, I was in Europe, I saw it.

So you saw it with your own eyes, and that is probably what you relied on, right?

As if it is a bit different from what they say.

I am just curious how you can break free when everyone around you is pushing the same narratives.

Education means those same narratives.

And everyone is against you. What were you relying on?

Well, that is probably some kind of character trait.

Well, I just wanted to learn from more sources.

I mean, it cannot be that, like an experienced journalist,

can rely on only one so-called source.

You have to learn several versions.

I was interested in the same thing.

I mean, it cannot be that in some book where, like,

I was in Russia, for example, back then, as a child.

I remember how Russian people treated Ukrainians there.

No, that's exactly the point.

And, like, I was also curious, like, how is it

that they teach me one thing, while in the world something else is happening?

And, like, it was really important for me to understand where that fine line lies.

And, well, besides the American instructors,

we also had British teachers.

And the British ones, actually, are much more professional

and more competent than the Americans.