Transcript · Persian → English
Analysis of Political Negotiations and Security
So on Friday night, the atmosphere had completely changed. On Saturday,
at 8: 00 a.m., I went to see the president and reported on the Geneva talks.
At the same time, I said that the negotiations were relatively good,
as far as negotiations go. But the existing atmosphere is not one of
negotiation at all; it is an atmosphere of war.
I also had an appointment at 9:
00, so I came to the Office of the Supreme Leader.
Well, I had an appointment with one of the office officials.
- So you didn't meet with the Leader?- No.
Yes, our standard procedure was to meet with Mr. Hejazi, so to speak.
The reports would go to him, and during the day, he would, for example,
present the reports from everywhere to the Supreme Leader,
and if there were any questions, they would bring back the answers.
If necessary, the Supreme Leader himself would meet with us.
It wasn't as if this was the only path.
In any case, the Supreme Leader's practice was to receive reports from everywhere,
review them all, and provide guidance.
If they deemed it appropriate,
they would summon the person— well,
not summon, but they would hold a meeting with them to brief them.
If necessary, they would also hold a group meeting.
They would either invite specific individuals or invite the Supreme Council.
In any case, in my opinion, there was a completely... ...
good decision- making system, and they still have it now.
Now, too, once security issues are resolved a bit, it should normally be the same.
- Were you with Mr. Hejazi?- I was with Mr. Hejazi at 9: 00.
And I was finally giving a report on the negotiations,
and I had just reached this part about the heavy wartime atmosphere, saying
it has been like this since last night and things are like this, when suddenly...
it was attacked there.- So they say the meeting was the Strategic
Council on Foreign Relations, right?- No.
- Because Mr. Kharrazi is also there, you are there, and Mr. Rahim Safavi is
also there.- No, you see, that is a large complex where...
Different departments are in it.
The Strategic Council on Foreign Relations has a place a few buildings away,
and they were also having a meeting at the same time.
However, nothing happened to that one.
Worse than that was the meeting that Mr. Shamkhani had organized,
and a number of commanders had gathered there.
- We won't broadcast this now, I mean, I doubt we can broadcast it,
okay?- Maybe it's for the historical record.
- There are three meetings that day.
One is the meeting of the Ministry of Intelligence's Council of Deputies,
which is at the ministry.
One is the meeting of the Strategic Council on Foreign Policy,
which is at the Office.
One is the meeting of the Council of Defense that Mr. Shamkhani organized.
Mr. Khamenei himself is also at the Office. How do you analyze this?
Three or four simultaneous meetings at 9: 30 a.m.
Well, the Strategic Council itself had a
regular meeting, so to speak, every Saturday.
Back when I was in the Strategic Council, we had meetings every
Saturday morning.
But in the building they have on Pasteur Street.
I don't know what had happened that they had evacuated the lower building that day.
Besides, that place wasn't the target, but Mr. Shamkhani's meeting was.
And Mr. Shirazi's office was a target, and Mr. Hejazi's office was a target.
The office of the Supreme Leader itself was the target. They hit these quickly.
- Did they also hit the meeting of the Ministry's
Council of Deputies? - That was in another building.- I know. No, I don't think
this simultaneous occurrence of multiple meetings is natural. Well, in those days,
of course, whichever building you went to, there was a meeting going on.
But yes, the meeting of…
the Supreme Leader was in his office. Never mind that. The fact that
the Defense Council meeting had also been convened by Mr. Shamkhani— now,
whether it was coincidental or not, I don't know,
but the Ministry of Intelligence was also holding this meeting at the same time.
What is important, in my opinion,
is their awareness of these meetings,
and this is perhaps a security loophole that existed and probably still does.
This must be cured, which the security forces are now pursuing.
And I believe this security loophole is not just about infiltration and
gathering information, sometimes it is also in directing
decision- making, and worse than that, in directing, shaping our
psychological atmosphere.
Let me put this cryptically.- Yes.
- Yes, I believe nothing can destroy the Islamic Republic except meetings.
I mean, these meetings have ruined the Islamic Republic.
But this timing, this intelligence mastery, and striking at 9:
30 a.m., I don't attribute this to technology or AI or whatever.
In my opinion, since you also have an intelligence background,
I think we should look for a few Kashmiris or something.
It's not that simple.- Ettela'at newspaper also wrote an article.
Well, let me tell you, in my opinion,
they knew that every day
End of transcript · 857 words · machine translated
Original transcript (Persian)
لذا جمعه شب، یه کامل اصلاً فضا عوض شده بود. من شنبه ۸ صبح رفتم خدمت رئیسجمهور و گزارش مذاکرات ژنو رو دادم. در عین حال گفتم، گفتم مذاکره خوب بود به نسبت در حد خود مذاکره. ولی فضایی که وجود داره اصلاً فضای مذاکراتی نیست و فضای جنگی هست. ساعت ۹ هم قرار داشتم اومدم دفتر حضرت آقا. خب با یکی از مسئولین دفتر قرار داشتم.
- یعنی با آقا دیدار نداشتی؟ - نه. آره، ما قاعدهی کارمون اینطوری بود که به اصطلاح با آقای حجازی دیدار داشتیم. گزارشها خدمت ایشون میرفت، ایشون در روز گزارشها از همهجا رو مثلاً خدمت حضرت آقا ارائه میداد و اگر سوالی بود جواب رو میآوردند. اگر هم لزوم بود اونموقع خود حضرت آقا دیدار میکردند. یعنی اینطور نبود که مسیر فقط این باشه. رهبر معظم به هر حال
مسیر فقط این باشه. رهبر معظم به هر حال اگر صلاح میدونستند فرد رو احضار، حالا احضار که نه، میخواستند با خودش جلسه میگذاشتند توجیه میکردند. لازم بود جلسهی جمعی هم میگذاشتند. اگر صلاح میدونستند فرد رو احضار، حالا احضار که نه، میخواستند با خودش جلسه میگذاشتند توجیه میکردند. لازم بود جلسهی جمعی هم میگذاشتند. حالا یا افراد خاصی رو دعوت میکردند یا شورای عالی رو دعوت میکردند. بالاخره یک نظام تصمیمگیری به نظر من کاملاً
خوبی وجود داشت و دارند الان. الان هم یکخرده مسائل امنیتی رفع بشه علیالقاعده همین شکل خواهد بود. - شما پیش آقای حجازی بودید؟ - من پیش آقای حجازی بودم ساعت ۹. و داشتیم بالاخره یه گزارشی از مذاکرات داشت دادم و اتفاقاً به همین قسمت فضای سنگین جنگی رسیده بودم و گفتم از دیشب اینطوری شده و اوضاع اینطوری هست و اینها که یهو اونجا حمله شد بهش. - پس جلسه میگن شورای راهبردی سیاست خارجی بوده درسته؟ - نه.
- چون آقای خرازی هم اونجاست، شما هم که اونجایید، آقای رحیم صفوی هم اونجاست. - نه، ببینید اونجا یک مجموعهی بزرگیه که بخشهای مختلف درش هستن. شورای راهبردی روابط خارجی چند تا ساختمون اونورتر یک محلی رو دارن، اونها هم همزمان جلسه داشتن. منتها به اون چیز نشد. از اون بدتر جلسهی - این رو حالا پخش نمیکنیم یعنی بعید میدونم بتونیم پخش کنیم خب؟ - شاید ثبت در تاریخه. - اون روز سه تا جلسه هست. یه جلسهی شورای معاونین وزارت اطلاعاته که توی وزارته.
یه جلسهی شورای راهبردی سیاست خارجهست که توی بیته. یه جلسهی شورای یه جلسهی شورای راهبردی سیاست خارجهست که توی بیته. یه جلسهی شورای دفاعه که آقای شمخانی گذاشته. خود آقای خامنهای هم که توی بیته. والا خود شورای راهبردی هر به اصطلاح منتها در ساختمونی که توی خیابون پاستور دارن.
چی شده بود که اون روز ساختمون پایین گذاشته بودن نمیدونم. ضمن اینکه اونجا هدف نبود. ولی جلسهی آقای شمخانی هدف بود. و دفتر آقای شیرازی هدف بود و دفتر آقای حجازی هدف بود. خود دفتر خود حضرت آقا هدف بود. اینها رو زدن سریع. - جلسهی شورای معاونین وزارت هم زدن؟
- اون از ساختمون دیگهای بود. - میدونم. نه، این همزمانی تعدد جلسات رو من طبیعی نمیدونم. والا اون روزها البته هر ساختمونی میرفتی یه جلسهای توش بود. والا اون روزها البته هر ساختمونی میرفتی یه جلسهای توش بود. ولی آره، جلسهی... حضرت آقا که دفترشون بودن. اون هیچ. اینکه جلسهی شورای دفاع رو هم تشکیل داده بود
آقای شمخانی، حالا آیا اتفاقی بوده یا نبوده نمیدونم ولی وزارت اطلاعات هم همزمان این جلسه رو داشته. مهم به نظر من اطلاع داشتن اونها از این جلسات و این شاید یک حفرهی امنیتیه که وجود داشته و هنوز هم احتمالاً داشته باشه. این رو باید درمان کرد که حالا نیروهای امنیتی دنبال هستن. و من معتقدم این حفرهی امنیتی فقط در نفوذ و گرفتن اطلاعات نیست، در جهتگیری به تصمیمسازیها هم گاهی هست
- آره، من که معتقدم هیچی نمیتونه جمهوری اسلامی رو نابود کنه جز جلسه. یعنی این جلسه پدر جمهوری اسلامی رو درآورده. ولی این همزمانی و این اشراف و ساعت نه و نیم صبح زدن، من این رو دیگه به عامل تکنولوژی و عامل هوش مصنوعی و نمیدونم اینها نمیدونم. من به نظرم، حالا شما یه سابقهی اطلاعاتی هم چون دارید، من به نظرم این دیگه مثلاً باید دنبال یه چند تا کشمیری چیزی باید بگردیم. به این سادگی نیست. - روزنامهی اطلاعات هم یه مقاله نوشتن. خب، خدمتت عرض کنم که من به نظر من اونها خب میدونستن که هر روز