Transcript · English → Uzbek
English → Uzbek transcript
Undan eng ko‘p nimani hurmat qilasiz? Hammasini.
Iltimos, buni ochib ayting. Mayli. G‘arbga tanishtirilgan
Muhammad bizning Muhammadimiz emas,
Qur’onning Muhammadidir. Juda muhim.
Va, iltimos, Patrik, menga istalgan savolni bering.
Agar siz mening javobim sizni qoniqtirmadi deb his qilsangiz,
iltimos, qaytib so‘rang,
toki javobimdan qoniqishingizcha.
Men bu yerda hech narsadan qochish uchun emasman. Shuning uchun, iltimos.
Shunchaki bilingki, siz menga bunaqa taassurot umuman bermayapsiz.
Shuning uchun o‘zingizni oqlashingizga ham hojat yo‘q. Ha. Rahmat. Rahmat. Rahmat.
Arabistonga yagona xudoga ishonch kerak edi.
Bu jamiyat hurmo va toshlarga sig‘inardi va qizlarini tiriklay ko‘mar,
butlarga sig‘inardi. Ibrohim an’anasi Arabistonda buzib yuborilgan edi.
Biz buni johillik davri, Zaman al- Jahiliyyah deymiz. Xudo bir odam yubordi,
biz ishonamiz, xuddi u Muso va Isoni yuborganidek. Uning ismi Muhammad.
Uni u Arabistonga yubordi,
yangi dinni boshlashi uchun emas, balki davom ettirishi uchun,
avvalgi payg‘ambarlarning dinini.
Muso bo‘lib,
bilasizmi, u yahudiylarning oxirgi payg‘ambari, va
Iso bo‘lib... nasroniylar uchun elchi.
Endi, siz uni Xudoning o‘g‘li deb ishonishingiz mumkin.
Men esa uni Xudoning payg‘ambari deb bilaman,
lekin biz kelishadigan jihat shuki, u Xudoning elchisi bo‘lgan.
U nima bilan kelgan bo‘lsa,
Xudodan kelgan, kelgan... siz Uni Otam deb ataysiz, men esa Alloh deyman.
Payg‘ambar Muhammad,
siz u keltirgan Qur’onni o‘qishingiz mumkin...
va biz“ nozil bo‘lgan” deymiz... u keltirgan, lekin u vahiy qilingan edi.
Demak, u lavha ko‘rinishida tushmadi, u oyma- oy, oyat- bayt nozil bo‘ldi.
Yoki ba’zi oyatlar birga. Uning Arabistondagi asosiy da’vati
yagona Xudoga ishonish edi.
Xudo kim? Bizning yaratuvchimiz kim va Unga bo‘lgan mas’uliyatimiz qanday? Xolos.
Bu— Payg‘ambar risolatining asosiy fundamental ustuni. Butlarga sig‘inmang.
O‘z qo‘llaringiz bilan yasagan butlaringizga sig‘inmang, va och qolsangiz,
xurmo va hokazolardan yasalgan ularni yeb qo‘ymang.
Qilmang ota- onangiz bilan jinsiy aloqa. Ota- onangizni o‘ldirmang.
Masalan, begunohlarni o‘ldirmang. Asosiy Nuhiy qonunlarga rioya qiling.
Aynan mana shuni bizning Payg‘ambarimiz targ‘ib qilgan. Keyin dinning
rivojlanishi bor. Mana shu joyi qiziqarli bo‘lib qoladi, chunki hammasi
yana o‘sha odamlar tomon qaytadi,
Payg‘ambar Muhammadga ergashgan odamlarga. Payg‘ambar Muhammad 570- yilda tug‘ilgan.
U 632- yilda vafot etgan.
U 23 yil davomida payg‘ambar bo‘lgan.
23 yil ichida uning
barcha janglari mudofaa xarakterida bo‘lgan.
Va men gapirayotganimda, buni qidirib ko‘rishingiz mumkin.
Ularning hammasi mudofaa xarakterida edi.
Va biz nasroniylarga, yahudiylarga,
istalgan guruhga munosabat haqida gaplashishimiz mumkin.
Menga istalgan savolni bering. Sizga shuni aytaman. Lekin buni qilishdan oldin,
Men shunchaki,
kontekst uchun qimmatli deb o‘ylagan bir kitobga ishora qilmoqchiman.
Jon Tolan yozgan“ Muhammadning chehralari”. To‘g‘ri.
Demak, bu kitob sizga shuni ko‘rsatadiki, G‘arbning o‘zi… bu kitobda muallif janob
Tolan G‘arbdagi Muhammadning chehralari haqida gapiradi. O‘rta asrlardagi Muhammad,
o‘rta asr davrida G‘arb dunyosi uni qanday ko‘rgan? Islohot davridagi Muhammad.
Ma’rifat davridagi Muhammad. Shunday ekan,
siz meni Payg‘ambarim haqida so‘raganingizda, bu savol
bizning davrimizda ro‘y berayotgan o‘zgarishlar va voqealardan kelib chiqadi.
Muhammad hech qachon G‘arb tomonidan yagona usulda ko‘rilmagan.
Unga Muhammad— tadbirkor,
Muhammad— shoir sifatida qarashgan,
Muhammad— jangchi, Muhammad— ota, yetimlarning otasi sifatida,
Muhammad— davlat arbobi sifatida. Toʻgʻrimi? Shunday ekan, men…
men gapirganimda Paygʻambar Muhammad haqida, sizga shuni aytaman:
u Alloh tomonidan Arabistonga ularga yoʻl koʻrsatish uchun…
yakkaxudolik va axloq sari hidoyat qilish uchun yuborilgan inson edi.
Xolos. Uning oʻzi shunday edi,
uning vazifasi shundan iborat edi. Va aynan Qurʼon ham
shunga eʼtibor qaratadi, lekin ha,
bu rivojlanayotgan jamiyatga xitob qiladigan kitob. Mojaro boʻladi. Urush boʻladi,
va tinchlik ham boʻladi.
Juda koʻp qiyin suhbatlarni qilishga toʻgʻri keladi.
Va biz ulardan choʻchimasligimiz kerak.
Nima… Qurʼondagi siz uchun qabul qilish eng qiyin boʻlgan qism qaysi edi?
Yo'q, men barchasini hech qanday qiyinchiliksiz qabul qilaman.
Hech birini inkor qilmayman. Yo'q.
Chunki siz menga beradigan hech bir savol yo'qki,
men unga mantiqiy javob topolmasam. Eng sodda savolni aytaman,
sizga uni ehtimol million marta berishgan, va siz buni bilasiz. Demak, Oisha.
Siz buni qanday qabul qilasiz? Oisha Payg'ambarga yoshligida turmushga chiqmagan.
U voyaga yetgan edi.
Va men siz buni ilgari ham aytganingizni eshitganman. U voyaga yetgan edi.
Bilasizmi, nechta odam bor,
islom olimlari,
ular butunlay teskarisini qiladilar,
hatto bu haqda bahs ham qilishmaydi, to‘g‘rimi. Ular va'zxonlar. Ular imom emas.
Ular va'zxonlar. Imomning o‘g‘li imom bo‘lmaydi.
Faqat otangiz imom ekanligi uchungina... masjidi bor,
namozga boshchilik qiladi va sizga gapirishingiz uchun mikrofonni bersa ham,
bu sizni ilohiyotshunos qilib qo‘ymaydi.
Agar... agar oddiy odam borib tekshirsa... Aytgancha, keling, shuni qilamiz.
Savolni boshqacha tarzda beray. Toʻgʻrimi.
Agar u Oishaga olti yoshida uylangan boʻlsa.
Agar u toʻqqiz yoshida yaqinlik qilgan boʻlsa.
Baribir musulmon boʻlib qolarmiding?
Gap shundaki, u bunday ishni hech qachon qilmagan boʻlar edi. Yoʻq,
lekin men boshqa savol beryapman. Toʻgʻri. U bunday qilmagan boʻlar edi.
Men u savolni soʻrayotganim yoʻq. Agar Paygʻambaringiz...
agar... bu shunchaki agar, bu kalit soʻz. Agar u
olti yoshli qizga uylangan boʻlsa. Agar u yaqinlik qilgan boʻlsa,
yaʼni, bilasan, toʻqqiz yoshida kim bilandir jinsiy aloqa qilgan boʻlsa,
baʼzi odamlar buni, bilasan, zoʻrlash deb taʼriflashadi.
Ular buni hatto jinsiy aloqa deb ham hisoblashmaydi.
Agar u shunday qilgan boʻlsa, baribir musulmon boʻlib qolar edingmi...
oʻzingni hanuz musulmon deb bilarmiding oʻzingni?
Patrik. Men bu savoldan qochmayapman. Men jonim bilan qasam ichaman.
Onamning joniga ham. Aytayapman- ku, siz Payg‘ambar deganingizda, men uchun u xato
qilmaydigan, adashmaydigan mavjudotni anglatadi.
Bu mantiqan to‘g‘ri kelmaydi. Unda savolni boshqacha yo‘sinda beray. Maylimi.
Um... Sen... sen tug‘ilgansan bir oilada,
u butunlay dindor emas.
Umuman. Sen o‘zing yo‘l topishing kerak.
U uchinchi avlod imom emas.
Ular musulmon emas, lekin ateist ham emas. Balki agnostikdir.
Sen o‘zing tanlab- tanlab, o‘zingnikini topasan.
Na... na nasroniy, na presviterian,
na Yahova, hech narsa emas, to‘g‘rimi?
Men oxir- oqibat baribir musulmon bo‘lardim.
Va shia musulmon bo‘lardim. Sen shunday deysan. Sen shunday deysan.
Hozir shunday deyapsan. Va bilasan- ku...
uh... uh... buni aytayotganingni tushunaman.
Bilasizmi, men ham aytgan bo‘lardimki,
oxir- oqibat o‘zim ham nasroniy bo‘lib qolardim. Va men buni aytgan bo‘lardim.
Lekin ikkalamiz ham buni aniq bilmaymiz.
Biz shunday deb o‘ynashimiz,“ ha” deb qo‘yishimiz mumkin, lekin men tushunyapman…
Siz aytayotgan narsalaringizga ishonchingiz borligining pozitsiyasini tushunyapman.
Agar biz nimanidir
doskaga yozsak. Har bir dindagi faktlarni.
Keling, ulardan birini olaylik,
nomi“ har qanday” din bo‘lsin.
Lekin o‘sha dinga asos solgan shaxs,
bir necha milliard odam hurmat qiladigan kishi,
agar faktlar bilan isbotlansa,
u olti yoshida kimnidir uylangani,
va to‘qqiz yoshida ular bilan jinsiy aloqa qilgani, siz hech qachon o‘sha dinga
qarab ko‘rarmidingiz? Agar… Men musulmon demadim.
Men faqat shuni aytdimki, agar asoschisi bunday qilgani isbotlansa,
siz hech qachon o‘sha dinni qabul qilarmidingiz? Yo‘q. Albatta yo‘q.
Qabul qilmas edingiz. Yo‘q. Xo‘p, juda yaxshi. Lekin… yana aytaman.
Payg‘ambar, biz uchun,
siz Muhammad desangiz, bilasizmi, miyamda nima ishlaydi? xato qilmaydigan,
umuman hech qachon xato yoki nuqson qilmaydigan inson. shunday qaror qabul
qilishi imkonsiz.
Bundan tashqari, Oisha masalasini
uni jamiyat va uning yoshi haqida bo‘lgan ma’lumotlar bilan solishtirib
ko‘rishingiz kerak. U singlisi Asmadan keyin tug‘ilgan,
va Asmadan oldin vafot etgan. Buning barchasi menda bor…
albatta sizga yuborishim mumkin
bo‘lgan bir tadqiqotda. U yo 18… 18 yoshdan 21 yoshgacha bo‘lgan.
Oisha uch yoki olti yoki to‘qqiz yoki 15 yoshda bo‘lganiga oid hech
qanday musulmonlar ittifoqi yo‘q. Umuman. Bu…
davlat ularni targ‘ib
qilayotgan nashrlar ortida turgani uchun ommaborroq fikrlar bor. Ha.
Buni qabul qilaman.
Lekin, yana aytaman, hurmat bilan, agar oldimga bir kitob,
tarix kitobini qo‘ysangiz,
va siz menga bu kitobni juda hurmatli bir odam yozgan deb aytyapsiz...
Bilasizmi, men sizga nima deyman? Men sizga butun hurmatim bilan aytaman,
birodar Patrik, men sizni bilaman... siz menga kitob berdingiz.
Siz... siz mening oldimga kitob qo‘ydingiz. Lekin Xudo menga aql berdi.
Va men matematika qila olaman.
Va men tushuna olaman u aynan qachon tug‘ilganini, qayerda bo‘lganini.
Buni hisoblab chiqish qiyin emas.
Xo‘sh... o‘n sakkizdan yigirma birgacha.
Mayli. Yakuniy hukm. Sizning fikringizga ko‘ra. O‘n sakkizdan yigirma birgacha,
to‘g‘rimi? Sizning fikringizga ko‘ra.
Lekin menda buning uchun islomiy manbalar bor. Ammo ular ham manbalar. Lekin ular...
Demak, ikki manba bir- biri bilan bahslashyapti. Yana, manba...
muallifga qarab va... ga qarab o‘lchanadi va baholanadi manbaning
ishonchliligiga.
Shunday ekan, siz menga u shunday bo‘lgan deb aytayotganingizda...
yoki u olti yoki to‘qqiz yoshda bo‘lgan, deb rivoyat qilinadi,
bu qayerdan kelib chiqqanini tushunaman.
Va men sizga yana shuni ayta olamanki, o‘sha kitob ayrim mamlakatlarda taqiqlangan.
Demak, bu ham o‘sha bir xil kitob…
va men buni tilga olishni istamayman… men ranjitishni istamayman
musulmonlarning falon foizini, buni aytish bilan. Lekin sizga shuni aytaman:
agar bir kitob
ISIS unga tayanganligi uchun rad etilsa,
u shuningdek rad etilishi kerak agar u sizga Oisha olti yoshda bo‘lganini aytsa va
mening Payg‘ambarim zo‘ravoy bo‘lganini da’vo qilsa.
Qulaylik, funksionallik va hashamatni birlashtirgan oyoq kiyim yaratishga
kirishganimizda,
bizda uni tez ishlab chiqish imkoniyati bor edi.
Bizda uni arzon qilish imkoniyati ham bor edi.
Biz ikkala variantni ham tanlamadik.
Buning o‘rniga, biz Italiyadan Toskana charm terisini tanladik.
Biz chinakam italyan ustaligini tanladik,
har bir juft 50 nafar mohir qo‘l tomonidan ishlanganini.
Biz sabrni tanladik, har bir tafsilotni mukammallashtirishga ikki yil sarfladik,
va biz har bir bosqichda eng yuqori sifatni tanladik. Tanishiring,
Future Looks Bright kolleksiyasi.
Shoshma- shosharlik emas, bir martalik emas, oddiy emas, aksincha ataylab
yaratilgan,
hashamatli, vaqt sinovidan o'tuvchi.
End of transcript · 1,446 words · machine translated
Original transcript (English)
What you admire about him the most? Everything. Please unpack that. Okay. The Muhammad that the West has been introduced to is not our Muhammad, the Muhammad of the Quran. Very important. And please, Patrick, ask me any question.
And if you feel I haven't answered you, please go back and make sure that you... you're satisfied with my answer. Um, I'm not here to Just so you know, you don't give me that vibe at all. So you don't even have to explain yourself. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Arabia needed monotheism. This was a society We call this the time of ignorance, Zaman al-Jahiliyyah. God sent a man, we believe, in the same way he sent Moses and Jesus. His name is Muhammad. He sent him to Arabia, not to start a new religion, but to continue He sent him to Arabia, not to start a new religion, but to continue
the religion of previous prophets. Moses being the, you know, the final Jewish prophet, and Jesus being the... Now, you may believe him to be the son of God. I see him as a prophet of God,
but what we agree upon is that he was a messenger of God. What he came with came from God, came from the... you may read the Quran that he came down with... and we say came down... he came with, but it was revealed to him. So it did not come down as a tablet, it came down as verse by verse.
Or certain verses together. His focus in Arabia was monotheism. Who is God? That is the main fundamental pillar of the message of the Prophet. Do not worship idols that you create with your own hands, and when you get hungry you eat them, out of dates and so on. Do not have
Do not murder the innocent, for example. Respect the basic Noahide laws. This is exactly what our Prophet advocated for. Then there is a development of a religion. That is where it gets more interesting, because it all goes back to those people following the Prophet Muhammad.
He passed away in 632. He was a prophet for 23 years. In 23 years, all of his battles In 23 years, all of his battles And you can look this up as I'm speaking. They were all defensive.
And we can speak about treatment of Christians, of Jews, of any group. Ask me any question. I'll tell you this. But before we do so, I want to just point to a book that I think is valuable just for context. I want to just point to a book that I think is valuable just for context. By John Tolan, The Faces of Muhammad. Right.
So this book shows you that the West itself... in this book, the author, Mr. Tolan, speaks about the faces of Muhammad in the West. Muhammad during the medieval era, Muhammad during the Enlightenment era. So when you ask me about my Prophet, the developments and events happening in our time.
Muhammad was never looked at in a single way by the West. He was looked at as Muhammad the businessman, Muhammad the poet, He was looked at as Muhammad the businessman, Muhammad the poet, Muhammad the warrior, Muhammad the father, the father of orphans, Muhammad the statesman. Right? So when I... when I speak about
I'll tell you this: he was a man sent by God to Arabia to guide them to... towards monotheism and ethics. That's it. That is who he was, that's what his mission was. focuses on, but yes, it's a book that speaks to a developing community. There's going to be conflict.
There's going to be war, and there's going to be peace. There's going to be a lot of difficult conversations to be had. And we should not shy away from them. What's the... No, I accept it all with no difficulty. None of it.
No. Because there's no question you can ask me that I do not have a rational No. Because there's no question you can ask me that I do not have a rational answer for. The most basic one I'll go to you that you've probably been asked a million So Aisha. How do you process that?
And I've heard you say this before. She was an adult. Do you know how many people who are Islam Muslim scholars who do the complete opposite, who don't even debate it? Right. They're preachers. They're not Imams.
They are preachers. Just 'cause your dad has an Imam... has a mosque and leads prayers and gives you the microphone to speak, it does not make you a theologian. If the... if the average person goes and checks to see... By the way, let's do this.
Let me ask the question in a different way. Right. If he did marry Aisha at six. If he did consummate at nine. Would you still be a Muslim? The thing is, he would never do that. No, but here's a different question I'm asking. Right. He would never do that. I'm not asking that question. If your Prophet...
if... this is an if, it's a keyword. If he did marry a six-year-old. If he did consummate, which means, you know, have sex with somebody at nine, that some people would, you know, define that as rape. They wouldn't even consider that as sex. If he did, would you still be a Musl...
would you still see yourself as a Muslim yourself? Patrick. I'm not running away from the question. I swear on my life. And on my mother's life. to me it means an infallible being that does not make a mistake or make error. It doesn't make sense. Um... You're... you're born into a family
that is non-religious. At all. You have to find your own way. It's not third-generation Imam. They're not Muslim, but it's not atheist. Maybe it's agnostic. You go pick and choose and find your own.
Not... not Christian, not Presbyterian, not Jehovah, not nothing, right? I would eventually end up as Muslim. And as Shia Muslim. You say that. You say that. You say that now. And, you know... uh... uh... I understand saying that. You know, I would also say I would end up being a Christian myself.
But neither one of us know that for a fact. We can play that and say yes, But neither one of us know that for a fact. We can play that and say yes, I get the positioning of you having faith in what you're saying. If we put something on a board. Facts of each on a board. Facts of each
Let's name one of them, the religion of whatever. But the founder of that religion, who is admired by a couple billion people, if it was factually proven
that he married someone at six and they had sex at nine, would you ever consider that religion? If... I didn't say Muslim. I said if it was proven that the founder had done that, would you ever accept that religion? No. Of course not. You wouldn't. No.
Okay, beautiful. But... but again. The Prophet, for us, when you say Muhammad, you know what I process? for us, when you say Muhammad, you know what I process? An infallible human being that does not make mistakes at all or any error. So it's impossible that he would make such
a decision. And plus, the issue of Aisha, you have to weigh it against the society and the dates around her. She was born after her sister Asma, and she died before Asma. And I have it in... in a study which I can definitely send you. She was either 18... from 18 to 21 years old. There is no Muslim
there are more popular opinions because there is a state behind the publications promoting them. Yes. That I accept. if you put a book in front of me, a history book, if you put a book in front of me, a history book, and you tell me this book was authored by a very respected man...
and you tell me this book was authored by a very respected man... You know what I'll tell you? you gave me a book. You put... you put a book in front of me. But God gave me a brain. And I can do mathematics. And I can understand exactly when she was born, where she was.
It's not hard to work it out. Well... 18 to 21. Okay. Final verdict. According to your opinion. Is 18 to 21, right? According to your opinion. But I have Islamic sources for it. But those are also sources.
But they are... So the two sources are debating each other. Again, a source is... is measured and is judged based on the author and based on the... the credibility of the source. So when you're telling me that she was... or it's narrated that she's six or nine,
I understand where that comes from. And I can also tell you that book is banned in certain countries. So that's the same book for... and I don't want to mention... I don't want to offend So that's the same book for... and I don't want to mention... I don't want to offend X percent of Muslims by saying this. But I'll tell you this. If a book is rejected
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