Transcript · Spanish → English
Maradona's Controversial World Cup Experience
And that's true,
just as he says. Did they betray Maradona?
Yes, he, well, we don't have proof,
what he says is the truth, we don't have proof.
Forget about it, they promoted the World Cup with Maradona and then they removed him.
We were champions, we were beating everyone.
But do you think Grondona was
an accomplice to that? After seeing the final between Brazil and Italy, we could beat anyone.
Do you think Grondona was an accomplice to that? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
So, you suspected that Grondona betrayed Maradona?
Absolutely, no, we didn't suspect.
We talked about it internally with Diego,
with the whole group, because we were there every night, until Diego left,
we were in the room with Diego every night.
Diego cried every night, every day, and we were all together.
But the group is right, it changed and...
He was sad, we were sad.
We were sad because they knew they were taking away a guy who, for us,
was fundamental. He was our captain, he was extremely important.
But do you think Grondona was devastated?
Yes, they sold him out,
something happened, they made a trade, I don't know.
I don't have proof, you know, but...
But didn't you guys ask Grondona? Did you ask what happened?
Didn't they defend Maradona?
No, no. No, because there was such chaos when that happened.
There was such chaos. We didn't even know when we were eating.
Everything got out of hand, everything got out of hand. Suddenly, it was a...
Suddenly. It was a bombshell.
That day... That day he left, when we went to
train on a pitch and I saw Diego sitting by the goalpost over there, all alone.
Very strange. He hadn't released the news yet. No, they were throwing names out.
Do you remember they were saying no to Sergio Vázquez?
They wanted it to be Sergio Vázquez, poor guy.
They were saying no to Sergio Vázquez, he had gone to Sergio Vázquez.
They wanted him to take… No, you take.
No, I didn't take it, they didn't say anything. I wanted to buy him.
Then I saw him,
when I saw him sitting there as the group came in.
Do you remember the day Grondona came in, when there were two million
journalists, and he went to the stands and spoke to the journalists?
I went over there alone,
I walked over because when he entered the training on a pitch
he would grab the balls. He'd start kicking, he wanted to…
He'd throw it to you there, saying, "Come on, grab it."
When you wanted to touch it, he was already over there.
So I go, I sit there with him.
Then I say to him, "What's going on?"
He tells me, "I'm done for, they're kicking me out of the World Cup, they kicked me out of the World Cup."
And I say to him, "But what? Why?"
"Now they're going to break the news and you'll know."
"Now the journalists are coming,"
"now Grondona is coming, he's going to talk to you, you'll know I'm out. They screwed me."
And well, that's how I found out.
Even though there were some rumors.
They threw hints, but they weren't very sure.
Nobody was saying anything.
That's when he told us.
That's when we went onto that pitch, I don't remember.
In the situation Oscar is referring to, the image was hidden from El Gráfico.
It's the classic pitch inspection the day
before, which was mandatory to do in the stadium where the match was going to be played.
And the whole group enters, the rumor was already out there.
"If it was this, let it be Sergio Vázquez," everyone was saying.
We journalists were in the stands and Diego goes alone to a goal and
hangs from the net.
And he stays hanging there from the net while he was doing the whole show.
Nobody on the outside knew.
Which stadium was it? The Dallas stadium.
Argentina had played the first two matches in Boston.
They were going to play Bulgaria, which was a match, a formality.
And they would return to Boston because back then they always kept the same venue.
The defeat, which is an almost logical defeat.
If they won,
the Dallas match, they stayed in Boston.
If they lost, if they tied as well.
If they lost by one goal,
they would stay in New York New Jersey, which was 400 kilometers away.
And if they lost by more than one goal, they were going to cross the whole country.
Which is crossing the whole country.
That day they say Grondona comes out and says that Maradona had tested positive.
All of this at night,
I think it was before the match.
I think we must have gone to bed at five or six in the morning.
All of us. Because we were in the room with him.
We stayed in the room with him until six in the morning.
And what comes next is the day of the match.
The famous interview Diego gives to Paenza in his room.
And that interview is broadcast while the anthem is being sung.
I mean, it was Maradona talking and the faces of all the players singing the anthem.
Did you know that match was going to be lost? He couldn't go to the stadium.
That's the second stage.
First, there's a stage. It's very strange that even the person in charge, someone, would go
to take him from the doping control. No, no.
It was the first time in history. It's the first and only time.
And only. The second stage is that... That they took him by the hand and from the pitch.
Because we, usually, would go to the locker room. We'd go to the locker room.
We'd go to the locker room. You'd shower. You'd even shower beforehand.
Mochela would come and it was your turn for the drug test. And you, calm.
This guy, they took him from the pitch, by the hand. Yes, yes. There are many stories.
They say this girl was married to an Argentine, that's why she approached him and spoke.
And another thing too,
which I don't know if Grondona said off or on the record. That's the image. See the stick.
That's the double-page spread. That's how she entered, see.
There it is. I don't know if Grondona said it off or on the record.
I don't really remember, Dani.
Oh, yes. When we entered the pitch, we saw it like that.
What Grondona said, I don't know if this is actually the case,
was that if he didn't drop Maradona, the national team would be disqualified.
That's the point I wanted to make,
because what Oscar is raising is, one thing is how the story started,
whether there was a conspiracy or not, but the other thing is true,
that as soon as the name came out, Grondona decided to remove him from the team.
So, that's a bit of what Valvo says, I think, about a subsequent defense.
In other words, stand your ground,
look for every possible option to try to defend him.
I mean, what they did was immediately remove him from the team.
And that it wasn't the case with Caldería.
Grondona later said, over the years, I don't know if that same day, he said the option was,
if he didn't remove Grondona, they would disqualify the team. He said it that very day.
We should have left.
And why were you left out now?
Do you know how many drug tests Diego had?
He went to drug testing almost every match.
Stop messing around.
He went almost every match. He was always swearing, you know?
What did number 10 come out on?
And me next? Me or the other? Or were there two of us?
Or two or three? It was always around and your number would come up.
They drew him. Forget it.
They should have, and we should have... Well, it's better if they disqualify us.
Since we came with the captain and with the player.
And they tested all of us before the World Cup started.
End of transcript · 1,372 words · machine translated
Original transcript (Spanish)
Y ese es verdad, tal cual como lo dice. Lo entregaron a Maradona? Sí, él, bueno, no tenemos prueba, es la verdad lo que dice, no tenemos prueba. Olvídate, promocionaron el Mundial con Maradona y después lo sacaron.
Nosotros éramos campeones, le ganábamos a todos. Pero vos creés que Grondona era cómplice de eso? Después de ver la final Brasil Italia le ganábamos a todos. Vos creés que Grondona era cómplice de eso? Sí, total. Total. O sea, ustedes sospechaban de que Grondona entregó a Maradona?
Total, no, no sospechábamos. Hablábamos ahí internamente con Diego, con todo el grupo, porque estábamos todas las noches, hasta que Diego estuvo, estábamos todas las noches en la habitación con Diego. Diego lloraba todas las noches, todos los días y nosotros estábamos todos juntos.
Pero el grupo tiene razón, que cambió y... Estaba triste, estábamos tristes. Estábamos tristes porque sabían que nos sacaban un tipo que para nosotros era fundamental. Era nuestro capitán, era importantísimo. Pero vos pensás que Grondona se quería morir?
Sí, entregaron, algo pasó, intercambiaron, no sé qué. No tengo pruebas, viste, pero... Pero no se lo preguntaron a ustedes a Grondona? Dijeron qué pasó? No defenderon a Maradona?
No, no. No, porque era tal el descontrol que había cuando pasó eso. Era tal el descontrol. No sabíamos a la hora de comer. Se descontroló todo, todo se descontroló. De golpe fue un... De golpe. Fue una bomba. Ese día... Ese día que sale, que nosotros vamos a
entrenar en una cancha y yo lo veo a Diego sentado en un palo allá del arco, solo. Rarísimo. Todavía no había dado la noticia. No, estaban tirando. Te acuerdas que decían no a Sergio Vázquez? Querían que sea Sergio Vázquez, pobre. Decían no a Sergio Vázquez, había ido a Sergio Vázquez.
Querían que tome... No, vos tomás. No, yo no tomé, decían nada. Yo quería comprar a él. Entonces lo vi, cuando lo vi ahí sentado que entró el grupo. Te acuerdas el día que Grondona entró que había dos millones de
periodistas que se fue a una platea y le habló a los periodistas? Yo me fui solo allá, me fui caminando porque cuando entraba al entrenamiento a una cancha agarraba las pelotas. Se ponía a patear, te quería... Te la tiraba ahí, te decía dale, agarrála.
Cuando le querías tocar ya estaba por allá. Entonces me voy, me siento ahí con él. Ahí le digo, qué pasa? Me dice, estoy al horno, me sacan del mundial, me sacaron del mundial. Y le digo, pero qué? por qué?
Ahora van a dar la noticia y va a saber. Ahora vienen los periodistas, ahora vienen Grondona, les va a hablar, va a saber que estoy afuera. Me cagaron. Y bueno, así me enteré. A pesar de que había algunos comentarios.
Tiraban ahí pero no estaban muy de él. Nadie decía nada. Ahí nos dijo a nosotros. Ahí nos entramos en la cancha esa, no me acuerdo. En la situación a la que se refiere Oscar, la imagen fue tapada al gráfico.
Es el clásico reconocimiento del día previo que era obligatorio hacerlo en el estadio donde se iba a jugar el partido. Y entra todo el grupo, ya el rumor estaba instalado. Si era esto, que sea Sergio Vázquez, decía todo el mundo. Los periodistas estábamos en una platea y Diego se va solo a un arco y
se cuelga de la red. Y se queda colgado ahí de la red cuando él hacía todo el show. Nadie sabía para afuera. Qué estadio fue? El estadio de Dallas. En la Argentina había jugado los dos primeros partidos en Boston.
Iba a jugar a Bulgaria, que era un partido, un trámite. Y volvía a Boston porque en esa época se seguía siempre la misma sede. La derrota, que es una derrota casi lógica. Si lo ganaba, el partido de Dallas, seguía en Boston.
Si lo perdía, si lo mataba también. Si lo perdía por un gol, se quedaba en New York New Jersey, que era a 400 kilómetros. Y si lo perdía por más de un gol, iban a cruzar todo el país. Que es cruzar todo el país.
Ese día que cuentan que Grondona sale y dice que era el positivo que daba Maradona. Todo a la noche, creo que fue previo al partido. Creo que nos debemos haber acostado 5 o 6 de la mañana. Todos. Porque estábamos en la habitación con él.
Nos quedamos en la habitación con él hasta las 6 de la mañana. Y lo que sigue después es el día del partido. La famosa entrevista que le da Diego a Paenza en la habitación de él. Y se emite esa entrevista mientras se está cantando el himno. O sea, era Maradona hablando y la cara de todos los jugadores cantando el himno.
Tú sabías que ese partido se iba a perder? Él no podía ir a la cancha. Esa es la segunda etapa. Primero está una etapa. Es muy raro que vaya ni siquiera la responsable, alguien, a llevarlo del control antidoping. No, no. Fue la primera vez en la historia. Es la primera vez y única.
Y única. La segunda etapa es que... Que lo agarraron de la mano y de la cancha. Porque nosotros, comúnmente, íbamos al vestuario. Íbamos al vestuario. Íbamos al vestuario. Te bañabas. Hasta te bañabas antes. Venía Mochela y te tocó el doping. Y vos, tranquila. A este lo agarraron de la cancha, de la mano. Sí, sí. Hay muchas historias.
Dicen que esta chica estaba casada con un argentino, por eso se la acercó y hablaba. Y otra cosa también, que no sé si lo dijo en off o en on, Grondona. Esa es la imagen. Ven el palo. Esa es la doble página. Así entró, ve. Ahí está. Yo no sé si lo dijo en off o en on, Grondona.
La verdad que no me acuerdo, Dani. Ah, sí. Cuando entramos nosotros a la cancha lo vimos así. Lo que dijo Grondona, yo no sé si esto es efectivamente así, es que si él no desafectaba a Maradona, quedaba descalificada en la selección. A ese punto quería llegar,
porque lo que plantea Oscar es, una cosa es cómo empezó la historia, si hubo una conspiración o no, pero lo otro sí es cierto, que apenas salió el nombre, Grondona lo que decío fue sacarlo del equipo. O sea, ahí está un poco lo que dice Valvo, me parece, de una defensa posterior. Es decir, hacéte fuerte,
buscá todas las variantes posibles para tratar de defenderlo. O sea, lo que se hizo fue inmediatamente apartarlo del equipo. Y que no haya sido el caso de Caldería. Grondona después dijo, con los años, no sé si ese mismo día, dijo que la opción era, si no sacaba a Grondona, descalificaban al equipo. Lo dijo ese mismo día.
Teníamos que habernos ido. Y ahora por qué quedaste afuera? Sabés los doping que le tocaron a Diego? Iba casi todos los partidos al doping. Dejate de joder.
Iba casi todos los partidos. Siempre, sabés cómo puteaba? En qué salió el 10? Y yo atrás? Yo o el otro? O dos éramos? O dos o tres? Que siempre andaba por ahí y te salía tu número. Lo sacaron. Olvidate.
Lo tenían que haber y nos teníamos que... Y bueno, nos descalifican mejor. Si nosotros vinimos con el capitán y con el jugador. Y nos hicieron control a todos antes de empezar el Mundial.
