Transcript · Spanish → English
Maradona's Controversial World Cup Experience
But wait, wait. Did they sell Maradona out?
Yes, he... well, we don't have proof, that's the truth, we don't have proof.
Forget about it, they promoted the World Cup with Maradona and then they kicked him out.
We were going to be champions, we were beating everyone.
But do you think Grondona was complicit in that?
After watching the Brazil-Italy final, we would've beaten anyone.
Do you think Grondona was complicit in that?
Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely.
So, did you suspect that Grondona sold Maradona out?
Absolutely. No, we didn't just suspect it.
We talked about it internally with Diego, with the whole group, because we were there every night,
up until Diego left, we were in the room with Diego every night.
Diego cried every night, every day, and we were all there together.
But the group is right, that it changed and was sad, we were sad.
We were sad because they knew they were taking away a guy who was fundamental to us.
He was our captain, he was extremely important.
But do you think Grondona wanted to die?
Yes, they gave him up, something happened, they made a trade, I don't know what.
I don't have proof, you know, but…
But didn't you ask Grondona?
Did you say, "What happened? Didn't you defend Maradona?"
No, no, no, because there was such chaos when that happened.
There was such chaos, we didn't know at lunchtime, everything got out of hand.
Everything got out of hand.
Suddenly, it was a bombshell.
That day, that day it comes out, when we go to train on a pitch and I see Diego
sitting on a post over by the goal, alone.
Extremely strange.
He hadn't broken the news yet.
No, they were teasing, do you remember what they said to Sergio Vázquez?
They were saying it should be Sergio Vázquez, poor guy.
They were saying, no, to Sergio Vázquez, he had gone to Sergio Vázquez.
They wanted him to drink, they said.
No, you drank.
No, I didn't drink anything, they said.
I wanted to buy from him, yes.
Then I saw him, when I saw him sitting there, when the group came in, do you remember?
The day Grondona came in, when there were two million journalists,
who went to the stands and spoke to the journalists.
I went over there alone, I walked over, because when he went into training
on a pitch, he would grab the balls, start kicking, he wanted to...
He would throw it to you, tell you, 'Come on, catch it,' and how could you?
By the time you wanted to touch him, he was already over there.
So I go, I sit there with him.
Then I say to him, 'What's up?'
He tells me, "I'm toast, they're kicking me out of the World Cup."
They kicked me out of the World Cup.
And I say to him, "But what? Why?"
Now they're going to release the statement and everyone will know.
Now the journalists are here, now the donors are coming,
they're going to talk, they're going to know I'm out.
They screwed me.
And well, that's how I found out, even though there were some rumors,
floating around, but…
but they weren't really about him, nobody was saying anything, then he told us, that's where we found out, at that pitch, I don't remember.
In the situation Oscar is referring to, the image was covered in the graphic, it's the classic day-before pitch inspection that was mandatory to do at the stadium where the match was going to be played
and the whole group enters, the rumor was already established, everyone was saying it was Sergio Vázquez, we journalists were in the stands
and Diego goes alone to a goal and hangs from the net, and he stays hanging there from the net when he was doing the whole show.
No one on the outside knew.
Which stadium was yesterday's?
The Dallas stadium.
Argentina had played the first two matches in Boston, was going to play Bulgaria, which was a match, a formality, and was returning to Boston because at that time you always stayed at the same venue.
The defeat, which is an almost logical defeat…
If they lost it, they'd be killed too. If they lost it by one goal, they'd stay in New York-New Jersey, which was 400 kilometers away, and if they lost it by more than one goal, they could cross the entire country.
Cross the entire country, right, yes.
And that day he talks about when Grondona comes out and says that it was Maradona's positive test, all at night, I think it was before the match.
I think we must have gone to bed at five or six in the morning, all of us.
Because we were in the room with him, we stayed in the room with him until about six in the morning.
And what follows is match day, the famous interview Diego gave Paenza in his room, and that interview is broadcast while the anthem is being sung.
I mean, it was Maradona talking and the faces of all the players singing the anthem.
Did you know that match was going to be lost?
He couldn't go to the stadium.
He couldn't go to the stadium. That's the second stage.
Because, let's say, first there's a stage, it's very rare that even the person in charge, someone, goes to take him from the anti-doping control.
No, no. It's the first time in history.
It's the first and only time, it didn't happen in that stage.
The second stage is that...
They take him by the hand right from the pitch, because we usually went to the locker room.
We went to the locker room.
It's just that I...
We went to the locker room and...
You would shower.
You even showered beforehand.
We had beers and, you know?
And they'd say, "You've been called for doping."
And you, relaxed, doing all sorts of things.
That's where the nurse came to get us.
They took him from the pitch, by the hand.
Yes, yes.
There are many stories.
They say this girl was married to an Argentine, which is why she approached him and was talking.
And another thing too, which I don't know if Grondona said off or on the record.
That one.
The image. That's the double page. That's how she entered, see.
I don't know if Grondona said it off or on the record.
To be honest, I don't remember, Daniel.
Oh, yes, when we entered the pitch, we saw him like that.
What Grondona said, I don't know if this is actually the case,
is that if he didn't drop Maradona,
the national team would be disqualified.
That's the point I want to make, because what Oscar is raising is,
one thing is how the story started, whether there was a conspiracy or not,
but the other thing that is indeed true is that
as soon as the name came out, what Grondona did was remove him from the team.
I mean, that's kind of what Balbo is saying, I think,
of a subsequent defense, meaning,
stand strong, look for every possible option
to try to defend him. I mean, what was done was
to immediately remove him from the team.
If Grondona later said, over the years,
I don't know if that very day, he said that the option was
if he didn't remove Grondona, they would disqualify the team.
He said it that very day.
And we should have left.
And now because you were left out.
Do you know how many drug tests Diego had to take?
He went to drug testing almost every match.
Stop messing around.
He went almost every match.
Always, do you know how much he cursed?
When did number ten come out?
And me next? Me or the other guy?
Or there were two of us, two or three who were always…
and maybe your number would come up.
They took him out, forget about it.
They should have, and we had to…
and well, they might as well disqualify us.
Since we came with the captain and the player.
And they tested all of us before the World Cup started.
End of transcript · 1,386 words · machine translated
Original transcript (Spanish)
Pero, para, para. ¿Lo entregaron a Maradona? Sí, él, bueno, no tenemos pruebas, es la verdad lo que dice, no tenemos pruebas. Olvídate, promocionaron el Mundial con Maradona y después lo sacaron. Nosotros éramos campeones, le ganábamos a todos. ¿Pero vos creés que Grondona era cómplice de eso?
Después de ver la final Brasil-Italia, le ganábamos a todos. ¿Vos creés que Grondona era cómplice de eso? Sí, total, sí, total. O sea, ¿ustedes sospechaban de que Grondona entregó a Maradona? Total, no, no sospechábamos.
Hablábamos ahí internamente con Diego, con todo el grupo, porque estábamos todas las noches, hasta que Diego estuvo, estábamos todas las noches en la habitación con Diego. Diego lloraba todas las noches, todos los días y nosotros estábamos todos juntos. Pero el grupo tiene razón, que cambió y estaba triste, estábamos tristes. Estábamos tristes porque sabían que nos sacaban un tipo que para nosotros era fundamental.
Era nuestro capitán, era importantísimo. ¿Pero vos pensás que Grondona se quería morir? Sí, entregaron, algo pasó, intercambiaron, no sé qué. No tengo pruebas, viste, pero... ¿Pero no se preguntaron ustedes a Grondona?
Dijeron, ¿qué pasó? ¿No defenderon a Maradona? No, no, no, porque era tal el descontrol que había cuando pasó eso. Era tal el descontrol, no sabíamos a la hora de comer, se descontroló todo. Todo se descontroló. De golpe fue una bomba.
Ese día, ese día que sale, que nosotros vamos a entrenar a una cancha y yo lo veo a Diego sentado en un palo allá del arco, solo. Rarísimo. Todavía no había dado la noticia. No, estaban tirando, ¿te acuerdas que decían a Sergio Vázquez?
Decían que sea Sergio Vázquez, pobre. Decían, no, a Sergio Vázquez, había ido a Sergio Vázquez. Querían que tome, decían. No, vos tomaste. No, yo no tomé, decían, nada.
Yo quería comprar a él, sí. Entonces lo vi, cuando lo vi ahí sentado, que entró el grupo, ¿te acuerdas? El día que Grondona entró, que había dos millones de periodistas, que se fue a una platea y le habló a los periodistas. Yo me fui solo allá, me fui caminando, porque cuando entraba al entrenamiento
a una cancha agarraba las pelotas, se ponía a patear, te quería... Te la tiraba ahí, te decía, dale, agárrala, y qué va a agarrar. Cuando le querías tocar ya estaba por allá. Entonces me voy, me siento ahí con él. Ahí le digo, ¿qué pasa?
Me dice, estoy al horno, me sacan del mundial. Me sacaron del mundial. Y le digo, ¿pero qué? ¿Por qué? Ahora van a dar la nota y va a saber. Ahora están los periodistas, ahora vienen los donantes,
van a hablar, van a saber que estoy afuera. Me cagaron. Y bueno, así me enteré, a pesar de que había algunos comentarios, tiraban ahí, pero... pero no estaban muy de él, nadie decía nada, ahí nos dijo a nosotros, ahí nos enteramos de la cancha esa, no me acuerdo.
En la situación a la que se refiere Oscar, la imagen fue tapada en el gráfico, es el clásico reconocimiento del día previo que era obligatorio hacerlo en el estadio donde se iba a jugar el partido y entra todo el grupo, ya el rumor estaba instalado, que sea Sergio Vázquez decía todo el mundo, los periodistas estábamos en una platea y Diego se va solo a un arco y se cuelga de la red, y se queda colgado ahí de la red cuando él hacía todo el show. Nadie sabía para afuera. ¿Qué estadio fue el de ayer?
El estadio de Dallas. Argentina había jugado los dos primeros partidos en Boston, iba a jugar a Bulgaria, que era un partido, un trámite, y volvía a Boston porque en esa época se seguía siempre la misma sede. La derrota, que es una derrota casi lógica... Si lo perdía, se lo mataba también, si lo perdía por un gol, se quedaba en New York-New Jersey, que era a 400 kilómetros, y si lo perdía por más de un gol, podía cruzar todo el país. Cruzar todo el país, cierto, sí.
Y ese día que cuenta en que Grondona sale y dice que era el positivo que daba Maradona, todo a la noche, creo que fue previo al partido. Creo que nos debemos haber acostado 5 o 6 de la mañana, todos. Porque estábamos en la habitación con él, nos quedamos en la habitación con él hasta las 6 de la mañana, más o menos. Y lo que sigue después es el día del partido, la famosa entrevista que le da Diego a Paenza en la habitación de él, y se emite esa entrevista mientras se está cantando el himno. O sea, era Maradona hablando y la cara de todos los jugadores cantando el himno.
¿Tú sabías que ese partido se iba a perder? Él no podía ir a la cancha. No podía ir a la cancha. Esa es la segunda etapa. Porque, digamos, primero está una etapa, es muy raro que vaya ni siquiera la responsable, alguien, a llevarlo del control antidoping. No, no. Es la primera vez en la historia.
Es la primera vez y única, no pasó en la etapa. La segunda etapa es que... Que lo agarran de la mano y de la cancha, porque nosotros comúnmente íbamos al vestuario. Íbamos al vestuario. Es que yo...
Íbamos al vestuario y... Te bañabas. Hasta te bañabas antes. Veníamos chelas y, ¿viste? Que decía, te tocó el doping.
Y vos, tranquila, que hacías de todo. Ahí nos fue a buscar la enfermedad. A este lo agarraron de la cancha, de la mano. Sí, sí. Hay muchas historias.
Dicen que esta chica estaba casada con un argentino, por eso se la acercó y hablaba. Y otra cosa también que no sé si lo dijo en off o en on con ondona. Esa. la imagen. Esa es la doble página. Así entró, ve. Yo no sé si lo dijo en off o en on Grondona.
La verdad que no me acuerdo, Daníl. Ah, sí, cuando entramos nosotros a la cancha lo vimos así. Lo que dijo Grondona, yo no sé si esto es efectivamente así, es que si él no desafectaba a Maradona, quedaba descalificada la selección.
A ese punto quiero llegar, porque lo que plantea Oscar es, una cosa es cómo empezó la historia, si hubo una conspiración o no, pero lo otro sí es cierto que apenas salió el nombre, Grondona lo que decío fue sacarlo del equipo. O sea, ahí está un poco lo que dice Balbo, me parece,
de una defensa posterior, es decir, hacete fuerte, buscá todas las variantes posibles para tratar de defenderlo. O sea, lo que se hizo fue inmediatamente apartarlo del equipo. Si Grondona después dijo, con los años,
no sé si ese mismo día, dijo que la opción era si no sacaba a Grondona, descalificaban al equipo. Lo dijo ese mismo día. Y teníamos que habernos ido. Y ahora porque quedaste afuera.
¿Sabés los doping que le tocaron a Diego? Iba casi todos los partidos al doping. Dejate de joder. Iba casi todos los partidos. Siempre, ¿sabés cómo puteaba?
¿En qué salió el 10? ¿Y yo atrás? ¿Yo o el otro? O dos éramos, dos o tres que siempre andaba por ahí te salía tu número. Lo sacaron, olvídate.
Lo tenían que haber y nos teníamos que, y bueno, nos descalifican mejor. Si nosotros vinimos con el capitán y con el jugador. Y nos hicieron control a todos antes de empezar el Mundial.
