Discussion on Gender Roles and Obedience

You told me women have an advantage over men, uh, I mean—

In short, everything you said was guardianship, that the man is in charge

of the woman. In return, what is required of a woman regarding

the man?

First, she is required to obey in what is right, and to protect him in

his absence, his wealth and his honor.

Okay. Uh, uh, obedience, obedience, I—

For me, the word “obedience” is a problem. I have an issue with it.

Because obedience—

What's the issue with it?

Obedience, uh, women see it as

meaning slavery. Don't you say obedience is to God, for example? God is—

No.

God is God, but if I obey a man, I put a man in the position of

God.

No, no, no.

Meaning, in a position far above mine, so I'm obligated.

No, no, no. Excuse me, excuse me. There's a great deal of confusion

here, a great deal.

First,

first of all,

the mistake you made

was that I told you

to obey a man in what is right.

God Almighty is obeyed in everything. A man is not obeyed in everything,

rather, he is obeyed in what is right.

That's one thing.

The other thing…

Every institution in the world

is based on obedience,

no institution succeeds without obedience, and the family

is the most important institution.

Let me ask you a question.

The educational institution:

If you're a teacher,

do you obey the school principal or not? If you're a doctor,

do you obey your supervisor at the hospital or not?

If you're a student, do you obey your teacher or not?

Go ahead, answer me.

Then, the other issue—

In Islam, just as a wife obeys her husband,

the issue isn't about male and female, it's about creating order in life,

creating order in life. I mean,

In Islam, obedience is not because you are

female and he is male. A son is required to obey his mother,

even though he is male and she is female. He is required to obey

his mother.

Does that make him her slave?

The important thing is, answer the, uh, question. Are you employed or not?

Yes, I'm employed.

Employed doing what?

In, in sports.

In sports. Do you have a manager?

Umm, something like that, a manager.

Yeah.

Do you have a manager or not?

Honestly, I handle my own work myself. I'm my own manager.

Myself.

Yes. Does anyone obey you or not?

They don't obey me. We're in an, um, institution,

a gym, and everyone has their own job.

When you prevent them from leaving during

working hours—for example, you...

What hours did you set for them?

Um, work from seven in the morning until

eleven at night.

From seven to eleven at night.

Yes.

Okay,

whoever is required to stay during these hours—

Mm-hmm.

are they allowed to leave during that time without your permission?

It depends, if they have an excuse and so on.

No, they don't have an excuse. They just suddenly feel like leaving this place

without your permission.

Leave w-without my permission?

Yes.

If there's an emergency, I might allow it—

Not an emergency, not an emergency. I'm just— um, say he got hit on the head and said, "I want to leave"

at one in the afternoon.

Mm.

He's supposed to stay until eleven.

It depends on the situation.

If, if—

I told you he doesn't have— My question is clear, so please—

does he leave, quit work altogether, or not?

No, no, no, he leaves, goes out for— I mean, for some reason,

and comes back tomorrow. Okay, that's it.

Uh-huh.

Without an excuse.

The— the place has rules, he has to follow the rules.

I feel— yes, that's the point. And families have rules.

Mm-hmm.

And the institution of the family has rules.

Exactly.

Is that considered worship, then?

No, not worship, but you told me— you used the term obedience.

In religion, there is a term called obedience.

What does obedience mean? What does obedience mean?

Obedience is that I commit to— listening and obeying, that whatever he says, I have to

do as he says, that's all.

No, that's not true. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "There is no obedience

to a created being in disobedience to the Creator." This is the methodology in

Islam.

Uh, for example, for example—

What's the logical problem with a wife obeying

her husband in what is right, not in what is forbidden?

For the sake of organizing the family institution.

Uh-huh.

What's the problem? What's the problem with that?

It's not obedience. Look, if we as women are aware,

and he— and he is aware, surely I can't be aware—

How did awareness enter the discussion? I mean, when a boy obeys his mother, does that mean the boy isn't

conscious? What does awareness have to do with it—

I have children, I have children, I have children.

I'm talking to you from a religious standpoint, it has nothing to do with your children. Religiously, a child is commanded

to obey his mother. Does that mean he isn't rational? No.

It's something called manners and respect.

I teach my son to respect me, not obey me.

He respects me.

Yes, and when he respects you—

I give you trust, I give you security, you respect me.

You're playing a subtle game, but you're playing a game of terminology, by the way. You're playing

a game of terminology, nothing more, nothing less. If I asked you about the respect you mean,

it would turn out to mean obedience,

it would turn out to mean obedience. But what are you doing? You're playing a game of terminology.

No, obedience comes from my role as a parent.

Listen, just listen, it's like someone saying,

"Uh, no, I don't obey my manager."

How can you not obey your manager? You'd leave your job.

Without asking your manager's permission during work hours? No, I ask my

manager's permission, but I don't obey him.

Mom, asking permission is obedience, it's the same thing. No quibbling over terminology.

The idea is there regardless of the term.

The idea is there. You're playing a terminology game now.

Yes, I demand that my son respect me. What is respe—what do

you mean by this respect?

When you tell your son not to smoke, not to smoke,

do you want him to listen to you or not in this case?

Of course I want him to listen to me.

There you go, that's obedience. Listen.

But, uh, but if he doesn't listen—

That's obedience, that's obedience.

Listen to me, that's obedience. See how I, uh, showed you that

you

are only playing a terminology game? It's the same thing.

When he listens to you, it means he obeyed you. Asking your permission means he got

permission from you, so he acted in obedience to you. It's the same ter— same

thing. Therefore, as the scholars said, there is no quibbling over

terminology,

no quibbling over terminology.

Okay, what do you want, then? Look,

Fine, let's abolish a wife's obedience. Okay, how will you establish— h-how

organize the family?

How will you organize the family? Come on, give us an alternative.

Every institution—every institution—is built on obedience.

Don't talk about obedience instead. Don't judge me by your own standards.

What is respe— N-no, what does respect mean here? Go ahead.

You, you just asked me a question. I'm telling you it's mutual respect.

Mutual, and each person keeps their place in the home.

And who told you that obedience means disrespect?