Soldier Testimony on Gaza Conflict

Can you tell me, for the people who have not seen your

film,

what happens with a soldier who tells you about a little boy and a

dog?

So this is a particular soldier who was in a unit

that he describes destroying systematically homes in the,

in the Gaza Strip. He-- They would, they would destroy house after house after

house. And they had a policy

where when Palestinians who used to live in the neighborhood would

try to go back, uh, to their houses, you know, these are people who

are-- became, uh, refugees inside Gaza, who, who have no

house, uh, and they would cross an imaginary line.

They would be shot and killed, and it, it was done routinely.

It didn't matter if they were men, women, or children.

And this-- he's saying that the soldiers themselves

were operating drones or were

sitting at a distance like snipers.

He would watch this all happening from a screen. Soldiers were not in danger.

Now, this testimony, uh, it c- matches,

corroborates testimonies of Israeli soldiers that appeared in twenty

twenty-four

and twenty twenty-three in the Haaretz newspaper.

It matches what we've heard from Palestinians on the ground, from, uh,

doctors, including US-based doctors, who told The New York Times that they saw,

uh, multiple instances of children with sniper

shot, uh, bullet wounds

that were killed. And this soldier is telling us how in, in

one instance he saw a, a child crossing this invisible line.

The child was bombed and killed. And what's

very horrifying in the film is that he's talking about the,

the bodies as well, and

he says that the, the-- these are people who would be killed from a

distance, so

the bodies would be left there on the ground.

And he says the dogs would come, and they would eat the bodies.

And, and the soldiers would see this from the

camera. So they would see dogs.

I think this is not in the film, but he also said the dogs had this kind of

Pavlovian, um, conditioning already, that they would hear--

When you hear a, a, a gunshot, the dogs would go there because they would

understand that it's likely there is human bodies.

Haaretz reported about a dog line.

So this im- Soldiers referred to this imaginary line

that any Palestinian

cro- crosses it would be killed as a dog line,

because this is the line, the

area, where the dogs would be, would be hanging

around, because they knew-

Right

...that every day someone will get shot. Yeah.

Soldiers are listening in on the phones of people in Gaza who

are at home, and they can listen through these devices

to the communication, the people talking, talking about, "Dad is

coming home." But they also can hear

when a bomb strikes an apartment,

that people are screaming and yelling, and parents are screaming

about kids that are literally on fire.

Before an attack,

we

would

use

the phone with family members. We would hear them inside the house.

So you hear a person's last moments. I heard him.

You can bomb to make it more professional.

What kind of things do you hear in the homes?

Just normal life. Like, it could be,

uh, television, uh, prayer,

a conversation with his wife at night, a baby

crying in the background.

And how many of these

buildings do you think you were involved in bringing down?

Hundreds.

Hundreds.

Yes.

For you guys, a shocking experience to hear these

stories, and has it been worthwhile producing this

film, Nussa?

Palestinian journalists have been documenting and showing the world what

is going

on in, in Gaza. So I mean, in a way, it wasn't really, uh, shocking to

hear what the soldiers are, are, are describing because, I mean,

we have been seeing it in, in the last years.

But there was something, I mean, shocking in, in the experience of, of

being in, in Tel Aviv. You know, I grew up i-in that city, and to be

there

next to all the nice bars and, and, and the, the, the really-- it's a, it's a

nice city, and, and to sit there on the rooftops

and hear the

description of, of really mass killings of,

of civilians and,

you know, in-- When you see the film, and I,

I really hope people will just go and

watch the film in the cinemas, but

you hear our people, sometimes they sketch the systems,

and they just talk about it

as, as life go on around, around us in the city.

So I mean, for me, that was also part of the, of, of, of the, the

weird, shocking experience of, of how these systems are also,

I don't know, can be talked about so calmly in,

in one of the

biggest liberal cities in, in Israel. Yeah.

Can you go back to Israel after the, the

fury of not only the government but also many people in

Israel? They don't wanna hear these stories.

They don't wanna hear about genocide, about killing innocent people in

Gaza. What does it mean for you guys personally?

Because I, I do understand that you are in hiding right now.

Is that correct?

Well, we're, we're-- we didn't go back yet. I mean,

we're in London.

We're not, we're not actively hiding, but we, we, we couldn't go back yet,

exactly

as you say, because of these threats, these death threats that we faced.

And what we are doing is, is not something that is done, um, um,

out of

hatred for Israelis or, or out of...

It's, it's done because we feel a responsibility

as Israelis, um,

first and foremost to stop these crimes committed against

Palestinians and also because we want our own society to, to, to,

to live in a healthy way. I mean, Rachel was describing how Tel Aviv,

you know, the

city is, is considered the most liberal city in

Tel-- You, you cannot be considered

a liberal city when, from the heart of the city, uh,

military operations are conducted that are wiping out entire families

sixty kilometers southwards from that city.

And the things are connected. And Israelis often speak about how,

y- you know, there is an erosion of Israeli democracy for

Jewish Israelis, how

their-- the Israeli society is moving to the far right.

The- These shifts and trends in Israeli society are directly

linked to the ongoing occupation of Palestinians, to the fact that there is no

political solution. And, and, and if we want a good future,

we need to acknowledge reality. And, and, and I, I hope that one

day

people back home will, will see that also, and that we will be, uh...

our position will be a bit more, uh, um, popular, I guess, or

m-mainstream, and we-- i-it could happen. I mean, it, it might.

You know, people change, places change.

Prime Minister Netanyahu has started an investigation into the

anon-anonymous sources that you have spoken to, the 24

people from the IDF.

Are they safe?

Yes, Netanyahu called for an investigation.

We've taken, together with The Guardian's

investigations desk, um,

m-many measures to protect their identities, including changing,

as we say in the

film, um, voices and faces using digital techniques.

I think that what Netanyahu is doing is very dangerous.

It's very scary, and I think it should, it should be condemned by journalists

all over the world, and especially in Israel,

for the chilling effect that this can

have. It's a reflection of an authoritarian

government that instead of

dealing directly with what the Israeli soldiers and officers are

saying with, with, with their testimonies

that indicate to very serious crimes

committed by the army and the government in Gaza, they

are trying to, you know,

interrogate and, and, and block the messenger.

And I would also say that it-it's, it's puzzling because at first,

Netanyahu, the reaction was, "This is all just lies,"

um, before even watching the film. "These aren't real soldiers.

It's all a lie." Now, the reaction is, "These are

soldiers who are saying secrets." You, you can't have it both ways.

And as Rachel said, we get it. It's, it's-- the film is very damning to him,

his

government, and to the army. But we still think that by shutting down

the truth, we won't achieve anything.

We need to reckon with the-these actions, with what the soldiers

themselves are saying. I think it's very important.