Discussion on Israeli-Palestinian Ideology

Unfortunately, there’s no discussion of ideology.

Exactly.

There’s almost no discussion of anything ideological.

Dr. Einat Wilf will be joining us shortly. She founded a political party, and she talks about

ideology. Whether you like it or not, she talks about ideology.

There’s almost none. Everything is terribly personal.

Dr. Einat Wilf has joined us, and she also launched a new party, the

Oz party. I want to talk to you about the Palestinian state.

You were absolutely convinced that a state

of Palestine had to be established here. Does the dream still remain, or is it gone?

Not only is it gone, but the understanding is that this entire discourse

is a Jewish discourse. In other words, it’s a discussion in which we argue

among ourselves, and with ourselves, whether it’s for or against.

We’re wasting precious political, social, and diplomatic capital on it

when there’s no bride, and in fact, all the capital we waste on

this pointless debate is, it’s really not something we need,

and today I’m putting it much more simply.

On the day when the Arabs in Gaza and in the territories of Judea and Samaria,

when they know how to formulate a positive vision for themselves,

The day we reach an agreement, because their tragedy, and especially

as a result, ours and that of many around the world, is that they are organized

all of them, in fact, almost without exception, organized

around a vision that does not seek to build for themselves, but

seeks first and foremost to destroy what the Jews have built.

Clearly. Amazing. That we won't have both “from the river to the sea” and

that there will be no state for the Jews.

That is, unfortunately, the biggest slap in the face. I believed it too

and thought it was something you would want to hope for.

After all, who doesn't hope for a good life? For their children, their grandchildren,

to live in peace, not to live under constant terrorist attacks and so on,

and then, in the end, the awakening is very painful, but there are people who refuse to face

reality.

That is a very precise way of putting it. We are talking among ourselves.

Which party, if I could join one, you know it's hard to cross the electoral threshold alone.

החסימה. נכון צריך לפחות מאה חמישים אלף קולות.

Which party, theoretically, would you join today?

So what I’d like to do, and am working on it right now, is create a kind

of federation, an alliance of new parties that actually

come to challenge the existing way of thinking. I believe that after what

happened on October seventh, we can’t remain with the same way of thinking,

not about peace, not about war, not about the Palestinians, not about our attitude

toward the world, or about the rise of anti-Zionism in the West.

We need a completely different understanding of the challenges we face

and what I’m seeking, because the electoral threshold is indeed high and

there’s also a kind of cartel trying to prevent new forces from entering,

is to see whether we can join forces with new people who bring

a different, independent way of thinking, and together with them

break the cartel and cross the electoral threshold.

Yes, but nevertheless, in the end, people will cluster around large parties.

People will say, these are very dramatic elections. I can’t afford to waste my vote

אני לא יכול להרשות לעצמי לבזבז את הקול שלי.

So, theoretically, I'm asking you, if you don't manage to establish this federation, which

of the parties would you feel comfortable with now? A difficult or an easy question.

You don't have to answer me either.

It doesn't matter. I would rather bring I would rather bring new thinking, and also

I promised everyone who supports me that if I reach the decisive moment and I

see there isn't enough support to comfortably pass the threshold

I will act responsibly and won't waste the

votes. It's a shame that there's still a kind of deadlock

over whether Netanyahu or this bloc or the other bloc.

I came to bring something different.

There's no talk of ideology, no one cares, everything is very personal, everything is very partisan.

Tell me, Dr. Einat, and—

And that's what I'm trying to change.

Yes. Uh, you were—

Uh, you took a beating from where you came from because you changed your approach

or

because many people woke up from that dream? The dream and its shattering.

For me, the process happened after the collapse of Camp David and the massacre of

the Second Intifada. Clearly, what I discovered after October seventh

In October, many more people were willing to listen to what I had to say,

because, overall, I came with tough messages. I came with messages saying there is no difference

between Gaza and the Authority, no difference between Fatah— between Hamas and Fatah

in terms of their goal, which is clear and unequivocal for all of them: Jews

will not have a state. They may differ in their methods, but there is no difference

in their objec— in their goal, and after October 7, it was clear that more people

because reality was so horrific, were also willing to listen to messages that were

more difficult.

Dr. Einat Wilf, thank you very much. Thank you.