Transcript · Spanish → English
Maradona's Controversial World Cup Experience
And that is true,
just as he says. Did they hand Maradona over? Yes.
Well, we don't have proof, but what he says is the truth.
Forget about it, they promoted the World Cup with Maradona and then they took him out.
We were champions, we were beating everyone.
But do you think Grondona was
an accomplice to that? After seeing the final between Brazil and Italy, we could beat anyone.
Do you think Grondona was an accomplice to that? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Did you suspect that Grondona handed Maradona over?
Absolutely. No, we didn't suspect it.
We talked about it internally with Diego,
with the whole group, because we spent every night, as long as Diego was there,
we spent every night in the room with Diego.
Diego cried every night, every day, and we were all together.
But the group is right, that it changed and...
He was sad, we were sad.
We were sad because they knew
that they were taking away a guy who was fundamental to us.
He was our captain, he was extremely important.
But do you think Grondona wanted to die?
Yes, they gave him up,
something happened, they made a trade, I don't know what.
I don't have proof, you know, but…
But didn't you guys ask Grondona? Did you say, 'What happened?'
Didn't they defend Maradona?
No, no. No, because there was such chaos when that happened.
There was such chaos.
We didn't know at lunchtime, I don't know.
Everything got out of control, everything got out of control. Suddenly it was a…
Suddenly. It was a bombshell.
That day… That day it comes out,
when we go to train on a pitch and I see Diego sitting on a post
over by the goal, alone.
Very strange. He hadn't broken the news yet. No, they were throwing names out.
Do you remember they were saying no to Sergio Vázquez?
They said it was Sergio Vázquez, poor guy.
They were saying no to Sergio Vázquez, it had gone to Sergio Vázquez.
They wanted him to take it. No, you take it.
No, I didn't take it. They said nothing.
Then I saw him,
when I saw him sitting there as the group came in.
Do you remember the day Grondona came in and there were two million
journalists, and he went to the stands and spoke to the journalists?
I went over there alone.
I walked over because when he entered the training session on a pitch
he would grab the balls. He'd start kicking. He wanted to…
He'd throw it to you, say 'come on, catch it.' There, how could you catch it?
By the time you wanted to touch it, he was already over there.
So I go, I sit there with him. Then I say to him, 'What's going on?'
He tells me... I'm done for, they're kicking me out of the World Cup, they kicked me out.
And I say, "But what? Why?"
Now they're going to break the news and you'll see. Now come the...
There are the journalists, now Grondona is coming, he's going to talk to them,
you'll see that I'm out. They screwed me.
And well, that's how I found out.
Even though there were some rumors.
They were hinting at it, but they weren't very sure.
Nobody was saying anything.
That's when he told us.
That's when we went onto that pitch. I don't remember which pitch.
In the situation Oscar is referring to, the image was covered by the graphic.
It's the classic pitch inspection the day before, which was mandatory.
At the stadium where the match was going to be played.
And the whole group walks in, the rumor was already out there.
If this was it, let it be Sergio Vázquez, everyone was saying.
We journalists were in the stands, and Diego goes alone to a goal and
hangs from the net.
And he stays hanging there from the net while he was putting on a whole show.
Nobody on the outside knew. Which stadium was it? The Dallas stadium.
Argentina had played the first two matches in Boston.
They were going to play Bulgaria, which was a match, a mere formality.
And they would return to Boston because back then you always stayed at the same venue.
The defeat, which is an almost logical defeat.
If they won the match in Dallas,
they would stay in Boston. If they drew, too.
If they lost by one goal,
they would stay in New York New Jersey, which was 400 kilometers away.
And if they lost by more than one goal, they would cross the entire country.
Which meant crossing the entire country then.
That day they say Grondona came out and said that Maradona had tested positive.
It was all at night,
I think it was before the match.
I think we must have gone to bed at 5:00 or 6:00 a.m.
All of us. Because we were in the room with him.
We stayed in the room with him until 6:00 a.m.
And what follows next is the day of the match.
The famous interview Diego gave to Paenza in his room.
And that interview is broadcast while the anthem is being sung.
I mean, it was Maradona talking and the faces of all the players singing the anthem.
Did you know that match was going to be lost? He couldn't go to the stadium.
That is the second stage.
First there is a stage. It's very strange that not even the person in charge, someone,
would go to take him from the doping control.
It's the first time in history. And the only one.
The second stage is that... they took him by the hand right off the pitch.
Because we usually went to the locker room. We went to the locker room.
We went to the locker room. You showered. You even showered beforehand.
Mochela would come and tell you, you've been called for doping. And you'd be calm.
That's where the... came to get us.
There they took him right off the pitch. There are many stories.
They say this girl was married to an Argentine. That's why she approached him and talked.
And another thing too, which I don't know if Grondona said off or on the record.
That's the image. See the post. That's the double page. That's how it went in. There it is.
I don't know if Grondona said it off or on the record.
To be honest, I don't remember, Dani.
When we went onto the pitch, we saw it like that.
What Grondona said, I don't know if this is actually the case,
is that if he didn't remove Maradona, the national team would be disqualified.
That's the point I wanted to get to because what Oscar is raising is,
one thing is how the story started, whether there was a conspiracy or not,
but the other thing is indeed true, that as soon as the name came out,
what Grondona decided was to remove him from the team.
I mean, that's a bit of what Valvo is saying, I think, about a subsequent defense.
Saying, make yourself strong, look for all possible options to try to defend him.
I mean, what was done was to immediately remove him from the team.
And that it wasn't the case of Caldería.
Grondona later said, over the years, I don't know if that same day, he said that the option was,
if he didn't remove Grondona, they'd disqualify the team. He said it that very day.
And we should have left.
And why were you left out now?
Do you know how many drug tests Diego got?
He went to drug testing almost every match.
Stop messing around.
He went almost every match. He was always swearing, you know?
What did number 10 get?
And me behind, me or the other guy? Or there were two of us.
Two or three, who were always around and your number would come up.
They drew him, forget it.
They should have... and we had to... Well, it's better if they disqualify us.
But we came with the captain and the player.
And they tested all of us.
End of transcript · 1,377 words · machine translated
Original transcript (Spanish)
Y ese es verdad, tal cual como lo dice. Lo entregaron a Maradona? Sí. Bueno, no tenemos pruebas, es la verdad lo que dice. Olvídate, promocionaron el Mundial con Maradona y después lo sacaron. Nosotros éramos campeones, le ganábamos a todos.
Pero vos creés que Grondona era cómplice de eso? Después de ver la final Brasil Italia le ganábamos a todos. Vos creés que Grondona era cómplice de eso? Sí, total. Total. Ustedes sospechaban de que Grondona entregó a Maradona? Total, no, no sospechábamos.
Hablábamos ahí internamente con Diego, con todo el grupo, porque estábamos todas las noches, hasta que Diego estuvo, estábamos todas las noches en la habitación con Diego. Diego lloraba todas las noches, todos los días y nosotros estábamos todos juntos. Pero el grupo tiene razón, que cambió y...
Estaba triste, estábamos tristes. Estábamos tristes porque sabían que nos sacaban un tipo que para nosotros era fundamental. Era nuestro capitán, era importantísimo. Pero vos creés que Grondona se quería morir?
Sí, entregaron, algo pasó, intercambiaron, no sé qué. No tengo pruebas, viste, pero... Pero no se lo preguntaron a ustedes a Grondona? Dijeron qué pasó? No defenderon a Maradona?
No, no. No, porque era tal el descontrol que había cuando pasó eso. Era tal el descontrol. No sabíamos a la hora de comer, no sé. Se descontroló todo, todo se descontroló. De golpe fue un... De golpe. Fue una bomba.
Ese día... Ese día que sale, que nosotros vamos a entrenar en una cancha y yo lo veo a Diego sentado en un palo allá del arco, solo. Rarísimo. Todavía no había dado la noticia. No, estaban tirando. Te acuerdas que decían no a Sergio Vázquez?
Decían que era Sergio Vázquez, pobre. Decían no a Sergio Vázquez, había ido a Sergio Vázquez. Querían que tome. No, vos tomás. No, yo no tomé. Decían nada. Entonces lo vi,
cuando lo vi ahí sentado que entró el grupo. Te acuerdas el día que Grondona entró que había dos millones de periodistas que se fue a una platea y le habló a los periodistas? Yo me fui solo allá. Me fui caminando porque él cuando entraba al entrenamiento a una cancha
agarraba las pelotas. Se ponía a patear. Te quería... Te la tiraba ahí, te decía dale, agárrala. Ahí, qué va a agarrar? Cuando le querías tocar ya estaba por allá. Entonces me voy, me siento ahí con él. Ahí le digo qué pasa? Me dice... Estoy al horno, me sacan del mundial, me sacaron del mundial.
Y le digo pero qué? por qué? Ahora van a dar la noticia y va a saber. Ahora vienen los... Ahí están los periodistas, ahora vienen Grondona, les va a hablar, va a saber que estoy afuera. Me cagaron. Y bueno, así me enteré.
A pesar de que había algunos comentarios. Tiraban ahí pero no estaban muy de él. Nadie decía nada. Ahí nos dijo a nosotros. Ahí nos entramos en la cancha esa. No me acuerdo en qué cancha.
En la situación a la que se refiere Oscar, la imagen fue tapada en el gráfico. Es el clásico reconocimiento del día previo que era obligatorio hacerlo. En el estadio donde se iba a jugar el partido. Y entra todo el grupo, ya el rumor estaba instalado. Si era esto, que sea Sergio Vázquez, decía todo el mundo.
Los periodistas estábamos en una platea y Diego se va solo a un arco y se cuelga de la red. Y se queda colgado ahí de la red cuando él hacía todo un show. Nadie sabía para afuera. Qué estadio fue? El estadio de Dallas. Argentina había jugado los dos primeros partidos en Boston.
Iba a jugar a Bulgaria, que era un partido, un trámite. Y volvía a Boston porque en esa época se seguía siempre la misma sede. La derrota, que es una derrota casi lógica. Si lo ganaba el partido de Dallas, seguía en Boston. Si lo perdía, si lo mataba también.
Si lo perdía por un gol, se quedaba en New York New Jersey, que era a 400 kilómetros. Y si lo perdía por más de un gol, iban a cruzar todo el país. Que es cruzar todo el país entonces. Ese día que cuentan que Grondona sale y dice que era el positivo que daba Maradona.
Todo a la noche, creo que fue previo al partido. Creo que nos debemos haber acostado 5 o 6 de la mañana. Todos. Porque estábamos en la habitación con él. Nos quedamos en la habitación con él hasta las 6 de la mañana.
Y lo que sigue después es el día del partido. La famosa entrevista que le da Diego a Paenza en la habitación de él. Y se emite esa entrevista mientras se está cantando el himno. O sea, era Maradona hablando y la cara de todos los jugadores cantando el himno. Tú sabías que ese partido se iba a perder? Él no podía ir a la cancha.
Esa es la segunda etapa. Primero está una etapa. Es muy raro que vaya ni siquiera la responsable, alguien, a llevarlo del control antidoping. Es la primera vez en la historia. Y única. La segunda etapa es que... Lo agarraron de la mano y de la cancha.
Porque nosotros comúnmente íbamos al vestuario. Íbamos al vestuario. Íbamos al vestuario. Te bañabas. Hasta te bañabas antes. Venía Mochela y te decía, te tocó el doping. Y vos tranquila. Ahí nos fue a buscar la... Ahí te lo agarraron de la cancha. Hay muchas historias.
Dicen que esta chica estaba casada con un argentino. Por eso se la acercó y hablaba. Y otra cosa también que no sé si lo dijo en off o en on, Grondona. Esa es la imagen. Ven el palo. Esa es la doble página. Así entró. Ahí está. Yo no sé si lo dijo en off o en on, Grondona. La verdad que no me acuerdo, Dani.
Cuando entramos nosotros a la cancha lo vimos así. Lo que dijo Grondona, yo no sé si esto es efectivamente así, es que si él no desafectaba a Maradona, quedaba descalificada la selección. A ese punto quería llegar porque lo que plantea Oscar es, una cosa es cómo empezó la historia, si hubo una conspiración o no,
pero lo otro sí es cierto que apenas salió el nombre, Grondona lo que decío fue sacarlo del equipo. O sea, ahí está un poco lo que dice Valvo, me parece, de una defensa posterior. Decir, hacete fuerte, buscá todas las variantes posibles para tratar de defenderlo. O sea, lo que se hizo fue inmediatamente apartarlo del equipo.
Y que no haya sido el caso de Caldería. Grondona después dijo, con los años, no sé si ese mismo día, dijo que la opción era, si no sacaba a Grondona, descalificaban al equipo. Lo dijo ese mismo día. Y teníamos que habernos ido. Y ahora por qué quedaste afuera?
Sabés los doping que le tocaron a Diego? Iba casi todos los partidos al doping. Dejate de joder. Iba casi todos los partidos. Siempre, sabés cómo puteaba? En qué salió el 10?
Y yo atrás, yo o el otro? O dos éramos. Dos o tres, que siempre andaba por ahí y te salía tu número. Lo sacaron, olvídate. Lo tenían que haber y nos teníamos que... Y bueno, nos descalifican mejor. Si nosotros vinimos con el capitán y con el jugador.
Y nos hicieron control a todos.
