アハマド・シャラアとの対話：武装闘争からシリア統治へ

Starting in 2023, uh, a British non-government organization, uh, which specializes in conflict resolution, invited me to help them bring this guy out of the terrorist world and into regular politics.

Um, and at first, I have to tell you, I was very leery of going.

I sort of had images of me in an orange jumpsuit with a knife to my throat.

Um, but after talking to several people who had gone in, and one of whom had met him, um, I decided to take the chance.

And so the first time I met him, this guy's name, um, is known to Geir, was Abdqadar, uh, Jolani, um, but his actual name is Ahmed Shara, which he only revealed to the world after he captured Damascus in the blitzkrieg of December 2024, about five months ago.

Um, first time I met him, I sat down next to him, and I'm literally as close as I am to Roy, and I said, this is all in Arabic, I said, "Never in a million years could I imagine that I would be sitting next to you." Long beard, thin fatigues. And he looked at me, he speaks very softly,

and he said, "Wa la ana, me neither." And we went on and actually had a pretty civil conversation.

I, I share this because he said something which really piqued my interest. He never apologized, never apologized for the terrorist attacks in Iraq or in Syria, although there were many fewer in Syria.

Never apologized. But he also said, "You know, now I am governing an opposition-held area of northwest Syria, and I am learning that the tactics and the principles that I was following in Iraq do not apply when you actually have to govern four million people." And they had two million

residents of that area of Syria, and then another two million refugees who had come there from other parts of Syria, so they had a population of four million. He said, "I am learning that to govern, you have to make compromises." I was very struck by that.

So that was in March 2023, just over two years ago. Um, we went back a second time in September.