Civil Society and Political Influence in Ukraine

Was that, George, civil society in action?

You've been working on helping to build civil society, trying to build it,

often frustrated

in the former Soviet Union, in the Soviet Union.

I know you started,

I first met you in Ukraine in 1990 when you began those efforts.

There were many years,

I think, when it seemed it was all useless.

Does it say something to you,

teach you something about open society, civil society building?

Well, yes, because basically,

in many ways, I set up the foundation in Ukraine in 1990,

which is two years before the independence of Ukraine.

It was an offshoot of the foundation in Russia.

You know, I set up a cultural initiative foundation

in the Soviet

Union in 1987.

And then we built this branch in

Ukraine in 1990.

And the foundation,

one of the things that the foundation did,

gave a lot of scholarships

and supported civil society.

And the maturity of civil society, 25 years later,

is, to a large extent,

the work of the foundation.

Yeah, and I will just offer my own personal testimony here.

It's actually amazing in Ukraine, the new Ukrainian government,

the new Ukrainian leadership.

Everyone who I

know in that group has been touched somehow by open society and by,

like, literally, either people personally got a scholarship or someone, you know,

their wife got a scholarship. It's a really remarkable thing.

Well, this is,

for me, quite an experience to see this.

And I didn't realize,

actually, how much,

how big an effect it has had over a 25 year period, because those were students,

25 years later, they were leaders.

So, George,

the way you describe Ukraine, and you know that's where my own sympathies lie also,

is incredibly appealing.

It maybe is another one of these fantastical objects.

But not all Europeans agree with us.

The leader of your own homeland, Hungary, has described Putin as a role model.

We have political leaders across Europe.

We have the Greeks right now making trips to Moscow.

We have, in France,

Marianne Le Pen having close contacts with Putin.

How do you explain this influence,

this appeal that Putin has in Europe?

Well, I think I can take a political,

a historical perspective, because I was very much involved

in the collapse of the Soviet system.

That was my debut as what I call myself

a political philanthropist.