Discussion on Messianic Concepts in Judaism and Islam

Like, there is concepts within Judaism

that Mashiach ben Yosef and

Mashiach ben David. And if you really dive into that

and the plethora of

those two Messiahs, they can be one, they can be two, but there

is, um, commentary on that, the Mashiach ben Yosef

would die, and then actually Mashiach ben David,

but not in the sense of

Christianity whatsoever-

... um, because it actually says he fights a war.

Mashiach ben Yosef is-

Yeah

... is nothing like in to m- to, to Yeshua HaNozri, like, at all.

He fights a physical war in the land.

But-

But that, we don't know that that hasn't happened yet.

Yeshua didn't fight a war.

It was what we... Not yet.

Well, no, the Mashiach ben Yosef, the one that actually dies, but David-

Yeah

... asks for his life in the commentary.

Mm-hmm.

It says he asks Hashem, he sees the Sh- Mashiach ben Yosef may die,

and he says, "Give him life."

Right.

"Do not let him die." So if that's fulfilled,

then Mashiach ben Yosef does not

die.

Right.

So.

Well, the reason why I'm saying that is obviously 'cause although we do believe

that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the Messiah, you guys know

that we don't believe

he died, right? We believe that he was saved by God and

that he's going to have a

return. He's gonna have the Second Coming.

We agree that there's going to be wars and such.

So that would, in a sense, you know, the criteria in regards to what Jews

understand the Messiah to be, um, from the Muslim perspective at least,

it would be

fulfilled in the sense that Jesus, peace be upon him, did not die, right?

But-

If, if I could-

Go ahead. Go ahead.

Sorry, just really quickly, 'cause I actually wanted to ask about

this-

Sure

... because the, from my understanding, the overall Muslim

belief is that-

Mm-hmm

... the Messiah or that Jesus, he didn't suffer at all,

right? Like, 'cause that's, that-

Yeah, he wasn't crucified, if that's what you mean.

He wasn't crucified. So-

If by suffering you just mean, like, you know,

he went through certain qualms while

he was a prophet, obviously all the prophets do.

No, I mean the...

The crucifixion.

Cruci-

Yeah, no.

The crucifixion and what led up to the crucifixion,

'cause we also see scripture of

him being, you know, flogged, et cetera.

So Jesus went through a lot of physical suffering-

Like many of the other prophets, yeah

... prior to, prior to, um, the crucifixion.

But from my understanding in Islam, there's, there's just a, he did not

suffer. It was made to look like he suffered,

but he did not suffer.

That's only the crucifixion aspect that's spoken about within Islam.

But when we, when it comes to prophets, we know that in general many of the

prophets have a very difficult time in regards to their people, and this is

something that's also preached by Jesus.

He talks about the fact-

Right

... that the Jews, they used to kill, stone, and, you know, murder the, the, um,

uh-

I-

... the prior prophets as well. So it's not something unique to him.

Gotcha.

Itachi.