Discussion on Legal Charges and Evidence

the question.

Yeah.

You're just not following it enough.

Yeah, but, I mean, it seems, it seems pretty, like,

if you're gonna engage and

you're gonna say the evidence is overwhelming-

Mm-hmm

... that Tyler Robinson is guilty, I just think that you should-

All right

... like, can you tell me one charge that he's-

Then let's do the counter. You can really... Yeah, no, this

is a great gotcha.

No, no, no, you just got to ask me, play clips-

Yeah

... out of context-

Yeah, yeah

... put me in the hot seat.

Mm-hmm.

So please just answer the question.

This is fair.

Can you name-

Name all seven-

Can-

... since you've been following the case.

Okay, sure. You name-

Go ahead

... you name one.

Yeah, you named all seven.

I, I'm happy to do that, but can you name one?

I think he's, I think he's been charged with murder.

That's actually incorrect.

Okay, great. Now name all seven.

He doesn't even... This is like-

Name all seven.

And, and, and I, I, I think I-

Can you name all seven?

I, I can.

Then do it.

Sure. You don't have to put-

Do it. No, do it. I'll count them. Go ahead. Name them.

You don't have to put your fingers up. I can do that.

Okay, yeah, name them.

Yeah, sure.

Name them.

Uh, the first charge is aggravated murder, because that's what carries-

Okay

... the death sentence in the state of U-

So murder. Next.

No, that's not, that is literally not murder.

Okay. Next.

And so just so people... No, don't, I don't have to do it in a time limit.

There's nothing going on. And just to explain to people the

difference of why that

really matters and shows that he doesn't actually care about this

at all, is

because aggravated murder, uh, it's, it's narrowly defined-

Just avoiding the question

... and because it carries a death sentence.

I'm not, I'm gonna answer the question.

Okay, I'm waiting.

I'm just gonna recognize that your strategy of thinking

that people are intimidated

when you try to put a time constraint doesn't work.

Yeah.

And you'll be better the next time you debate someone.

I got it. I got it. Give me the, give me the other ones.

Um, it, it, the more you cut me off, the longer I'll take.

Do you wanna just wait for me to finish of why that's a big difference so that

people don't walk away?

No, I just want you to list the charges.

Yeah. I'm gonna do that, you just don't get to pretend

that there's a time

constraint for me to do that.

Well, how, how long does it take you to list seven

charges?

I, I'm, 'cause I, I'm speaking. You just got to-

It sounds like you're just delaying it 'cause you don't know them.

I, I know all seven of them.

Then tell me them.

And I'm gonna say again, 'cause, like, you're gonna get embarrassed.

I, you don't have to rush this. I'm also-

Yeah

... showing an example of a very flawed debate

strategy.

Okay, well, I got one.

I actually want to know time constraint.

I got one.

Great. The second charge is the felony

discharge of a weapon. Uh, the next two charges are

for obstruction of justice.

Okay.

The next two charges are for witness tam- tampering.

And the final-

But what's the specific charges, though?

That is them. Obstruction of justice.

Are both of those-

Obstruction of justice, witness tampering, witness tampering.

Okay. Wit- And there's no other specifics to them?

Well, we, I can tell you why he's being charged with

it.

No, no, no, just the, the charges and then seven.

Yeah. See, the bad thing is when you, you try to be an a-hole

and it doesn't work.

What's the seventh?

The last charge is, uh, violence in front of a minor.

Okay. Got it. So then he's being charged with murder.

You just say aggravated murder.

That's the distinction? You just wanna-

It's a, it's a massive-

Got it

... it's like you can't even-

Massive

... you cannot say murder versus aggravated

murder.

Massive distinction.

This gets to the entire crux of why him being u- up for the death

sentence, and I actually find the

defense's filing about why this is not aggravated to be, uh,

very compelling of why it's not aggravated murder.

I actually, if the state was going to even try to pull this off,

they should have

charged him with just murder. Um, and then I do also, again,

want to stress to audiences that that debate strategy, it's some

sport, I think he thinks it's a blood sport.

It's not.

It's about being right and being principled when you're engaging.

And you can make mistakes, I make mistakes all the time, but at

least be genuine in pretending that you care about this case enough to

know one

of the seven charges that are up against Tyler Robinson

when you say the evidence

is overwhelming that he's guilty.

Um, if you would like to m- move to final statements, I'm fine.

I want to make sure Andrew has had the time that he has requested.

I think your team would like to pull up the seven charges that he just asked you

about.

Sure.

If you guys wanna pull that up, just to confirm the seven you went

through.

Can you guys zoom in a little bit for the-

Aggravated murder, felony discharge of a firearm, uh,

obstruction, obstruction, obstruction, ugh, obstruction of justice, which

is counts

three and four. Five and six, tampering with a witness.

And count seven-

And count seven, violent offense

... I said offense in the presence of a minor.

In front of a child.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I said.

So five, six, tampering with witness, third degree felony.

Now, I did notice something I just was curious about, if, I'm just wondering.

When you pulled out your phone just before you asked that question, did somebody by

chance text you that question?

You can check my phone.

I'm just curious.

No, you can, absolutely not. I did, I have not had one communication-

Okay

... with a single person, not even my producers who

are in there this whole time we

were here. You wanna check my phone?

I'm happy to do it, because you're just gonna get double

embarrassed.

Where's my phone? You should do it.

Do you wanna see it?

I'm just curious here.

Okay. You can literally do that. Here you go.

PBD, you're the moderator.

Okay.

Take it.

Let's see it.

See if anyone was texted at all during this debate.

All right.

About the violent charges or anything.

I'm looking through this. You give me permission.

You, you-

So I'm looking at the-

You have full permission to go through my phone

... I'm not getting names.

I don't need to cheat.

So the last one has nothing to do with it, it's just a compliment.

Mm-hmm.

I haven't even read my text messages, so.

That's a compliment.

He's reading them.

You're okay. You'll give me permission.

Yes.

I'm just gonna read three of them.

Yes.

See 11:32, 'cause after that I don't need to read it.

Any other texts? Could've been Telegram, could've been something like that.

Oh, I have a Signal. You can check that too.

I only have Signal.

Telegram I used in Russia.

Okay.

Uh, and that was it. I downloaded it for Russia.

I'll, I'll take your word for it.

Yeah.

Then-

I don't, I don't need to, like-

Okay

... I, I deeply care about this case.

I don't need to pretend to know stuff that I don't know.

I get it. If you deeply care about the case-

Yeah

... I just, you know, I have, my other question is about-

Mm-hmm

... the steakhouse receipt