Debate on Objectivity and Racism in History

of history, even if it's not properly carried out,

would you say that the goal of history is to be objective?

Thank you, sir, for the question.

You know, I think that there are many goals of history,

and certainly as you collect, as we do, examine evidence, create scholarship.

Is objectivity one of the goals of

history? We strive to be objective and nonpartisan and not based on any ideology.

So it's one of the goals.

Doesn't that seem a little bit concerning?

It certainly does to me, because as part of this white supremacy document

that your organization has promoted,

objectivity is a core

and defining aspect of white supremacy culture.

Do you think that it's the goal of the Smithsonian Institution to

promote white supremacy culture?

Sir, do you mind sharing with me which document?

White supremacy culture right here.

This is part of the Mass Action Toolkit that

your organization has promoted for several years now under your leadership.

Are you promoting a white supremacy culture at the Smithsonian?

Am I promoting a white?

Ma am, is this a difficult question?

No, sir, I'm just thinking about the Mass Action Toolkit. We didn't develop it, but.

Back to your question.

No, we're not promoting any ideology.

Does it concern you that your goal is objectivity,

one of your goals is objectivity, and your mass action toolkit references

objectivity as a defining characteristic of white supremacy culture?

It's not our toolkit. It is your toolkit.

You've been promoting it for quite some time.

We did not come up with a toolkit, sir. But you've been promoting it.

It is used as a reference, I believe, probably in 2019, 2020.

Yes, under your leadership, it has been used as a reference.

Is Mickey Mouse racist? Mickey Mouse is not racist. It's not racist.

According to the Smithsonian Institution,

one of your exhibits referenced Mickey Mouse as representing,

quote, vestiges of longstanding traditions of blackface

minstrelsy. Would you describe that as racist?

No, the historical trajectory of the origins of Mickey Mouse

tied directly to So Mickey Mouse is rooted in racism, is that your testimony?

No, sir, it's rooted in minstrelsy.

Minstrelsy, and you don't think that blackface minstrelsy is racist?

It has certain unobvious racial overtones that have been well documented.

Do you think that that's problematic, that Mickey Mouse also has those

racial overtones? It's not for me to determine what's problematic.

It's determined to me what's accurate.

Is that right? Yes, sir. Is it important to be polite?

Excuse me, sir? Is it important to be polite? Yes, sir.

It's also interesting because the same mass action toolkit that

your organization has

been promoting references politeness as a defining characteristic

of white supremacy culture.

Ma am, are you a white supremacist?

No, sir.

Can you help me square why your organization says that

being polite is part of being a white supremacist?

I'm not exactly familiar with that passage of the mass action toolkit,

which is not one that we developed. I can show you the passage right here.

I don't, pardon me?

I said I just read you the passage from it.

And then your question was, sir? We're going to move on.