Discussion on Israel's Right to Exist

You

are critical of the government of Israel.

Do you believe in the Israel's right to exist?

Would you consider yourself a Zionist in that narrow definition?

What does that mean, a right to exist?

The existence of the political state of Israel as it is existing-

But it has a right. What does that mean?

That you don't, y- you think it should continue in its

existence as a state right

now. So you, you are the... You do not agree with Iran, for example.

Well, let me just ask, since you asked me the question-

Mm-hmm

... it's fair for me to get you to define the

term so I can answer it.

You've asked two questions. The first was, do you believe Israel has a right to

exist?

Mm-hmm.

And the second question was, do you believe Israel should continue to

go on as a

nation state?

And those are very different questions.

So I often hear the phrase-

Having been created as a political entity in 1948-

Does it have a right-

Does that state-

... to exist? Is that what you're asking?

We- I don't want to get hung up on the right

to-

No, no

... but should it-

We, it's, no, no

... should it-

No, no. It's not-

... should it continue to exist? That's what,

that's how I define narrowly Zionism.

No, no, because, because the phrase you used was

devised by the Israeli government,

of course. Does it have a right to exist?

And so my question to you would be, what does that mean?

Why don't you answer my question? It's a very simple question.

I don't know what your question is. Are you asking does it have a right to

exist?

Whether the political state is-

Or do I want it to exist?

Do you-

Do I seek its destruction?

Fine, answer it that way.

Well, of course I don't seek its destruction.

Okay, that's good.

I've already said, as you know, because I said it to you,

I don't want Israel-

Okay

... to be destroyed-

Okay

... or have to use nuclear weapons.

So we've, we've, we've, we've, we've established that you are in

that narrow terms

a Zionist, if that's the way you define it.

I'm in no sense a Zionist. I don't want any country be-

to be destroyed, and

I, at all, and I don't want people to die, particularly ones who committed no

crime, because I don't believe in killing

innocents, period.

That's the basis of Western civilization.

Eastern civilization has a whole different view.

They believe in collective punishment, I don't.

So you're in no sense a Zionist?

I don't even know what that means. Why don't you ask, define the, the term-

I've just-

... and then I'll tell you where I am

... I've just defined it.

What's a Zionist?

And you said that, that a Zionist in my narrow term,

this definition,

is that the state of Israel, the political state of Israel,

has the right to

continue existing.

The right. Where does that right come from? What,

what do you mean?

These are like... I'm not being a lawyer about it.

I just want to know what you're asking me.

Well, I said to answer the question.

It's a, it's a fair-

Because I don't know what you're asking me.

Okay, let's go to the, let's go-

Wait, no, no.

No, no, no.

I think a lot-

You don't want to define your question,

and I don't know why.

I don't know what you're asking me.

I've already said I don't want Israel to be destroyed.

I don't want anyone to be killed, and you've said, "Does Israel have

a right to exist?" Does it have a r- And I, my question is,

what right are you talking about? Does Britain have a right to exist?

Does the United States have a right to exist?

That there, there was a world order built up after 1945

which suggested that

aggression should not be condoned into countries, that the countries with borders

have the right to exist.

I totally agree with that.

Okay. That's-

If that... Which is why the first thing

that Israel did within two weeks of this

war starting, which is supposedly existential for them,

was take southern

Lebanon, take someone else's country, as they have done

repeatedly, and no one even mentions that.

And so I guess I would be opposed to that, because I guess I think Lebanon has a

right to exist.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I hear that.

I thought Gaza had a right to exist.

I, I, I-

But I noticed that as soon as we started portioning rights, only one country gets

them.

No, I did not say that. You're, you're absolutely putting words into my

mouth.

So because I believe... Here's what I do believe, since you asked.

I believe in universally applicable standards, and if they're not

universally applicable, they're not standards,

they're preferences.

That's why I believe in human rights, not ethnic rights.

I don't think Jews have more rights or less rights than anyone else.

I don't think Christians have more rights or less rights, Blacks,

Filipinos. I believe in human rights that derive from the creation of

people by God.