Debate on Global Energy Consumption Solutions

Steve, when you say we need to reduce energy,

do you mean the UK?

I mean the species. I mean human species.

Okay. So how does Andy Burnham do that?

Th- we are not set up to deal with this

problem because we're broken into nation

states.

Okay.

We can't make decisions that affect the entire planet.

So we need world government to reduce world energy consumption. Is that right?

We're gonna be stuck with that, yes.

Uh-huh.

We're gonna be stuck with it.

Well, see, this what... I'm glad we're having this conversation

'cause at least

this is the first time, and I mean this in a genuinely respectful

way-

Yeah

... it's the first time I've ever heard anyone

be honest about this issue.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what you want. You want world government-

No, I don't want it.

You believe it's inevitable.

I'm saying it's inevitable-

It's inev-

... because by ignoring-

You believe it... Yeah, I get it

... this problem, we've got to the scale-

You believe it's inevitable-

... where it's an existential threat to our

species

... that we have a world government-

Yeah

... that reduces world energy consumption, and therefore the prosperity of everyone

living on the planet.

And if we had taken the advice of the Limits to Growth 50 years ago,

we would not

be having this conversation.

Good.

We have delayed for half a century.

Is there any solutions that you believe are actually possible?

Um-

No.

No. There we go. You've done a public service here because

you have

showed what it is that sits underneath all the conversation

about

climate. It's a best case scenario, people who know there's nothing we

can do, but what we should do is flail about in the meantime, and

in order to not address this issue, impoverish not just in this case our

citizens and our fellow people, but actually the entire world.

That's, that's what this is. And the entire challenge I have to this

is I don't

believe in suicide for token gestures towards not

solving a problem you're claiming to solve, right?

We are not going to solve this problem by creating a world government and

reducing energy consumption. That is never, ever, in a billion years,

going to happen.

No, what we're gonna do instead is run into the crisis and fall apart as a

civilization-

What we're gonna do instead-

... in the process

... what we're gonna do instead... Look, you may...

There's a possibility you're correct about that, but the only choice we actually

have to solve this problem is to create forms of energy that do not

produce CO2, but produce GDP. Clean energy.

That's what we're gonna have to do.

By the way, it's what we've done throughout history.

And we need to make that clean energy more favorable in terms

of the

economics to India-

Yeah

... and China. And this-

Did you need a world government

to reduce usage of the horse and cart and replace it with the automobile?

No, you didn't. You came up with a better technology,

and people

adopted that technology voluntarily because it was advantageous.

This is not going to be solved by making everybody poor,

well, for the reasons that Steve himself articulated,

but it's also not going to be

solved by making everybody... Because people will not do it.

You say you need everybody to, to hold hands and sing Kumbaya

and act together.

No, what I'm saying is we need to have engineers in control.

And, and we're talking about it 50 years ago.

Engineers in control?

Engineers, okay?

So we should stop having elections.

So...

Compared to the politicians we get, yes, I'd rather get rid of elections than have

engineers running everything.

But, well, see-

They do a damn sight better job than our politicians have done.

Well, and this is why I say this is a public service, 'cause this

is what y- this

is the true face of the climate catastrophe narrative.

Let's go back-

We need world government

... 50 years to the true face.

We don't want elections, and we want to make everybody poor.

And you know why?

And we've got it out in the air.

Okay.

It's fantastic.