Impact of Polarization on Science During COVID-19

I think that, uh, people, uh, had, uh, taken very strong positions,

and, uh, there was very strong polarization and,

uh, partisanship and, uh,

a sense of ideology, uh, running the show.

Uh, so that was not really, uh, the best circumstances for doing

science, especially for someone who has no

political ideology and, uh, d-

doesn't want to satisfy one narrative or another.

Uh, death threats were very commonplace.

Uh, uh-

Also to you?

Of course. Uh, I, I think both myself and every single member in my family,

uh, we were attacked in, in, in ways that I could never have imagined

that would be possible to happen. And I, I think that the

environment was so toxic that, uh, the, the vast majority of, uh,

credentialed scientists who might have some expertise that would be relevant

to epidemiology-- Of course, it was a new virus, so no one really

was an expert on

this virus when it all started. But at least people who had the background

and, uh,

the credentials that would be relevant, most of those self-silenced.

I, I think that, uh, uh, I've heard from so many people, uh,

telling me that, uh, "John, uh, this is unbelievable.

Uh, we, we can't believe that this is happening.

If, if you are attacked in such a way, uh, if we were to try to do anything or

say anything, uh, we would be completely annihilated.

We, we would disappear from the map, and, uh, uh, our careers would end.

Uh, who knows? Maybe we'll be dead." I mean, ev-

everything was possible at, at

that time, the way that, uh, the behavior of the mob

and of politicians and, uh, and mass media and even legacy

media and influencers, uh, were operating.

And, uh, I think this meant that even though eventually we got

two million people writing about COVID-19, when we

needed it, the best epidemiologists just stepped

down.

Uh, most of the people who dictated the

narratives had

no clue about epidemiology.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, they may have had some expertise, some of them, in some other fields.

Um, there were some very good virologists, for example.

There were a few people who had good expertise in some other fields,

but not really

in epidemiology. So I think that epidemiologists were, uh,

very quickly, uh, seeing

my paradigm and other people in epidemiology who were equally silenced and

destroyed. They moved out.

Mm-hmm.

And they left epidemiology to people who were not epidemiologists.

Mm-hmm. What made you stay and, and speak about it and publish about it?

I, I think that, uh, it, it could have been, uh, uh, obsession.

Mm-hmm.

Maybe I was opinionated and, uh, wrong. Who knows?

Uh, but I also felt that I, I had to, to try to do

the best science that I could, uh, because I thought that it

was a major crisis

with multiple dimensions and, uh, there were lots of things at stake.

I, I, I think that, uh, it, it would be, uh, shameful for me

to, uh, just, uh, say, "I'm not gonna work on this" once I,

I started, uh, working and, uh, doing my first studies in the field.

Uh, it, it was something that could make a difference

if we made the right

choices or the, the wrong choice.