Creative Rivalry in Action Films

Like, take me back before the friendship

Because he was a challenge. He was he- I thought I had something going on,

and then

I can see this guy this immovable force, a very

confident human being, I think even more so than me and

more psychological in the way he would manipulate and do

things very cunningly, and not in a negative way, but just

shrewdly.

It was more good.

Where I was blunt force he would

Machiavellian, cool. And I went, "Goddammit," and he's winning these

awards, and he's a bodybuilder, and I'm like,

I consider myself somewhat more

of a, you know-

A thespian

... a thespian, a dramaturge, you know, that kind of thing.

A peripatetic dramaturge just wandering the country acting

and I went, "Wow, this, this is th- I'm

gonna... This is my guy. This is the guy I know I'm gonna have trouble

with

period." And sure enough we did. We were just going at

each other, which turned out to be fantastic, and,

you know,

I've, I've had some moments with him, and I'm regretful for some of the

things I've said about him. But he

an- antagonized me in a creative way, and I did to him.

I was a thorn in his side. He was a thorn in my side, but it

just forced us to keep moving higher, bigger guns, louder

movies, more action, dismember bodies, everything until I

think we really carved out a niche that'll never quite come around

again, that certain '80s over-the-top action

genre that he and I sort of pioneered.

You did.

Yeah.