Discussion on Pope's Views and Immigration Policy

And then we have Pope Leo, Mr. Vice President, and a lot of more conservative Catholics are

concerned and Christians, just regular Christians, are concerned that we have a Pope in him,

God bless him, who is very deeply, in some regard, anti-capitalist, similarly to the

last Pope, similar to the last Pope who was seen to be very anti-capitalist as well, very

critical of the Trump immigration policies as well.

So are you concerned about that?

No, I'm not concerned, Laura. I mean, I maybe just don't see it the same way. I don't see

Pope Leo as anti-capitalist. I do think that some of the things that have come out of the

Vatican on the immigration question in particular have been troubling, and ultimately I disagree

with it. But I actually like this interplay, Laura, between the Pope, between Christian clergy,

and between the administration. We don't always have to agree on these issues,

but I think the fact that we're actually having the right conversations, that we're pushing back

when we disagree about how they're applying a pragmatic principle of immigration policy,

that's a natural and reasonable thing to do. But I do think that we learned something in

the interplay, and what I would hope that the Catholic leadership has learned from some of

things that me and Marco and the president have said about immigration is it's not just about the

dignity of the immigrant. It's also about the dignity of the native-born factory worker who

has their wages destroyed. It's about the dignity of the child who can be sex-trafficked by a cartel

member when you have open borders. And so what I tell the Catholic leadership I talk to who

disagree with our immigration policies, you know, I'm not hostile about it. I invite them to have

the conversation, but I also encourage them to remember that mass migration has victims,

and you can't just view things from the perspective of the illegal immigrant. You've also got to view

things from the perspective of the native-born people who have their lives upended by mass

migration. I think that argument will ultimately win the day, but I'm not afraid of the conversation.

I think it's a good thing, and it's a good role for the church to play.