Investigating Climate Activism and Politics

Why is a climate organization doing all this?

Well, you know, a major focus of investigative

organizations, uh, like

mine that, um, that work on climate.

The rise of the populist right around the world is kind of-- is just as

important in our view and so that's kind of

was the genesis of this

project.

James Orr, Head of Policy Reform UK, I understand that you were recently

the target, one of the targets of a political hoax

from some net zero activists. Uh, what happened

exactly?

Very simply, about a year ago, I was approached, uh, in a bar in

DC,

uh, by a young guy pretending to be the

son of a wealthy guy as part of a family office, and he

was interested in getting into supporting causes that he

cared about in Britain, and we started

discussing that. We met several times over the course of a

number of

months.

And effectively, the long and short of it is, he

was trying to get me,

people in Reform UK, to break the law to create a

scandal for his documentary that would discredit Reform UK.

He failed.

And this chap's name that we now know is Louis

Wilson.

Louis Wilson. That's right. That was his name.

He presented himself to me under another name.

Uh, we now know him to be a longstanding,

uh, climate activist, believes that, uh, net

zero is the best thing in the world. That is obviously not what Reform UK

believes.

So he's clearly motivated by, uh, politically

motivated to discredit a, a political

vehicle, Reform UK, uh, that, that simply

disagreed with his political objectives, and he was trying to find,

uh, effectively corrupt, illegitimate ways to discredit

his political opponents.

And it, and it came at a time when, uh, a lot was being said of

net zero. Reform was coming out against net zero,

and

so, you know, it does take-

Ab- ab- absolutely right. I mean, you can look at any other party in British

politics on the question of net zero if you're a climate activist.

You could look at Labour and say, "Well, they've been on board with that

the whole time." You could look at the Tories and say, "Well, they used to be on

board with it. I know they've changed their minds,

but that's just because the

political winds have turned." Is there one party that has been right

from the start on the economic pain

on those who can afford it least of the net zero agenda?

Answer: Reform UK. So the target

was obvious to them. If you're a climate activist,

what's the political vehicle you want to discredit the most? Reform UK.

Hence, they're spending so long, so much money

trying to get people within Reform UK to break the law.

They didn't succeed.

And these guys have form. Louis Wilson was caught doing this in the United

States at the tail end of last year, uh, and appears to be working

alongside a chap called Laurence Carter, uh, who used to work for Greenpeace.

And now, uh, in addition to running this Verbatim

Investigations, which was set up just last month,

um, appears to also run something f- called the Centre for Climate Reporting.

What is the Centre for Climate Reporting?

As I understand it, the Centre for Climate Reporting

is in effect a

sort of, uh, an activist vehicle that has

been receiving foreign funds as far as I can tell, as far as

anyone has been able to, to, to, to, uh, to determine,

uh, in order to advance a very contentious

political

objective.

So Laurence Carter, um, ran, uh, Greenpeace,

what he called investigations.

Greenpeace on Earth. Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Uh, then he went onto this, uh, CCR group.

CCR Group.

Centre for Climate Reporting.

Yeah.

Um, now he's got this new firm, Verbatim Investigations, which was

incorporated just last month. Uh, I believe he's got another entity as well

that

he's spun up at the same time. Um, these guys have form

doing this. In fact, Laurence Carter himself, under a different

entity, was rebuked by the US Congress.

Yeah.

What did they say?

Yeah. Extraordinary. So these guys have form in doing this.

Laurence Carter, under the guise of one of his many

companies, we

think Greenpeace on Earth, uh, spliced together

edited footage in a way that was, it

turns out, extremely dubious. So corrupt and dubious, in

fact, that, uh, none other than the House Oversight

Committee

in Congress in the United States publicly

reprimanded him for it. So these are the people that we're dealing

with. As I said, not legitimate journalists working

undercover.

Activists using, illegitimately using

tools of undercover journalism in order to discredit their political

opponents.

So we know what they did. We know who they are.

Let's deal with the substance here.

Um, they will claim, using I'm sure cleverly spliced together

footage and innuendo and all of the stuff

that they're known for, Laurence Carter

himself talks about how he works in subterfuge.

Mm.

They will allege that you helped them, uh, commission a poll

for Reform UK that benefited Reform UK and that this was

somehow illegitimate or illicit. What do you say to that?

Yeah. Yes, I think that's their charge, isn't it?

That, that this is a, a poll that somehow I commissioned

or one of my colleagues arranged a- a- and commissioned.

This is not what happened at all. There was no money reached Reform

UK at all. No donation reached Reform UK, whether it was in

cash or in kind. No benefit reached Reform that only

Reform enjoyed. This guy

paid a pollster to run a poll that went to the national newspapers.

That's it. The poll was on an issue that the British people cared about.

Uh, should they be disenfranchised?

Should five million Brits be disenfranchised from the local elections,

for example.

I think that was the poll in January, the first poll.

Uh,

that went straight to the newspapers. It wasn't internal party polling.

It wasn't Reform UK's poll. Uh, it was a public poll

arranged by an independent person paying an independent

pollster, and those polls were published, uh,

immediately for the general public.

So Reform UK was interested in the results of the poll.

I read, I read those results for the first time

when they came out in the papers,

so don't know anything more about them than that.

So no, there's absolutely no way this could

amount

to a benefit or donation in kind at all.

The legal advice that I sought immediately within the party

was absolutely

adamant about that.

I'm... Used to be a lawyer. I know that lawyers like to hesitate and qualify,

and um, and ah. In this case, it was straightforward.

This, there is no way that this could be treated as a donation

in

kind.

Sounds to me like, um, Verbatim Investigations,

Channel Four have some questions to answer themselves.

It's pretty troubling that politically motivated actors trying

to discredit a political opponent through dubiously

legal means

have effectively been able to collude with a public

broadcaster to discredit a major

political party. I think Channel four certainly has

questions to

answer.

James Orr, thank you very much.

Good to be with you.

Why is a climate organization doing all this?

Well, you know, a major focus of investigative

organizations, uh, like

mine that, um, that work on climate.

The rise of the populous right around the world is kind of, is just as

important in our view, and so that's kind of

was the genesis of this

project